crop rotation

**Hazel at the Hill** · 29-10-2009, 03:26 PM

There are lots of threads on crop rotation, Janna, but they will likely contradict themselves, as we are a contrary lot...!

Some people use a 3 year rotation, some use a 4 year rotation (me*), and some 'stick it in where there's a gap' (you know who you are, Snadge!).

I guess it depends on the layout of your plot, and how organised you are! I have eight beds at the Hill, so a four year plan is good for me - but frankly, the world won't end if you put leeks after onions or something - just try to follow on with something different than was there before.

* John Seymour says: "Manure that land heavily and sow potatoes. After the potatoes are lifted, lime the land heavily and the next year sow peas and beans. Once the peas and beans are lifted, set out the brassicas immediately from their seed bed. The brassicas will have been eaten by the next spring and it will be time for the mixed crops, and follow these with the roots, then back to spuds where we started."

Which means that:

plot A - limed over winter then legumes all summer followed by brassicas over winter (this will be next years misc.)
plot B - misc. crops (toms, squash, lettuce, melon) (this will be next years alliums/roots)
plot C - onions, carrots, parsnips (this will be next years spuds)
plot D - mucked over winter then spuds, followed by overwinter broad beans (this will be next years legumes)

**Snadger** · 29-10-2009, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by Hazel at the Hill View Post

There are lots of threads on crop rotation, Janna, but they will likely contradict themselves, as we are a contrary lot...!

Some people use a 3 year rotation, some use a 4 year rotation (me*), and some 'stick it in where there's a gap' (you know who you are, Snadge!).

I guess it depends on the layout of your plot, and how organised you are! I have eight beds at the Hill, so a four year plan is good for me - but frankly, the world won't end if you put leeks after onions or something - just try to follow on with something different than was there before.

* John Seymour says: "Manure that land heavily and sow potatoes. After the potatoes are lifted, lime the land heavily and the next year sow peas and beans. Once the peas and beans are lifted, set out the brassicas immediately from their seed bed. The brassicas will have been eaten by the next spring and it will be time for the mixed crops, and follow these with the roots, then back to spuds where we started."

Which means that:

plot A - limed over winter then legumes all summer followed by brassicas over winter (this will be next years misc.)
plot B - misc. crops (toms, squash, lettuce, melon) (this will be next years alliums/roots)
plot C - onions, carrots, parsnips (this will be next years spuds)
plot D - mucked over winter then spuds, followed by overwinter broad beans (this will be next years legumes)

I would never have guessed that a thread about crop rotation , commented on by Hazel, would have had the name John Seymour in it!

"I've always been much more slapdash in the past but now it is time to get serious" ..................Why?????? Slapdash is good!!!!!!!

Why get hung up on 3 or 4 or 5 year plans when sticking to the idea of not following like with like is sufficient?

If you're into growing like farmers .....................with acres and acres of monoculture fair enough.........but as for creating colour coded crop rotation spreadsheets for a plot the size of a comparative postage stamp...............your time would be much better spent at the lottie!

**Hazel at the Hill** · 29-10-2009, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Snadger View Post

I would never have guessed that a thread about crop rotation , commented on by Hazel, would have had the name John Seymour in it!

I'm gonna make a scarecrow and call it Snadger & then I can plonk it in whichever bed I like!

Originally posted by Snadger View Post

.........but as for creating colour coded crop rotation spreadsheets for a plot the size of a comparative postage stamp......

...hang on - I do that!

**Snadger** · 29-10-2009, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by Hazel at the Hill View Post

I'm gonna make a scarecrow and call it Snadger & then I can plonk it in whichever bed I like!

.....................

And chuck rotten tatties at it!

btw its plonk it in a pocket........'pocket planting' me dear!

**Hazel at the Hill** · 29-10-2009, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by Snadger View Post

And chuck rotten tatties at it!

btw its plonk it in a pocket........'pocket planting' me dear!

I stand corrected, Polly Pocket - and I'll chuck blighty tommies at it too!

**Two_Sheds** · 30-10-2009, 08:48 AM

I have divided my plot roughly into quarters (not counting the fruit area, which doesn't rotate)

1) Legumes
2) Brassicas
3) Alliums
4) Roots and spuds, plus sweetcorn and squash go in the ground when the early spuds come out.

**Nicos** · 30-10-2009, 09:12 AM

My lottie is divided into 3 sections.

1/4 is an orchard/grassed/flower area - where th shed and greenhouse BBQ/resting area are.

1/2 is raised beds - where I have a fixed raspberry and strawberry and currant beds and I do a 3 year rotation in the other beds. ( this area is fenced off from bunnies)
mainly salad crops- squash under sweetcorn, root crops,beets,onions, legumes- I just make sure that I try and follow a 3 year rotation, but don't ever plant the same veg in th same bed the following year.
Any gaps get filled with late carrots, lettuce, spring onions etc.

1/4 is where I do a 3 year rotation of spuds,brassicas and squash. These are plants which tend to sprawl ( and cover paths) or just need leaving and netting- and generally are low maintanece crops. The spuds are also easier to dig up if there are no barriers. This is the only area of the lottie which gets dug over.

I too draw a plan of what is intended to go where- following the previous 2 years planting- but I have to admit that I've never followed a plan exactly!!

**Flummery** · 30-10-2009, 09:30 AM

I do slapdash. It works for me. Just don't but things in the same bed within a 3 year cycle. Like's too short to worry about things like this!

**StephenH** · 30-10-2009, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by Hazel at the Hill View Post

There are lots of threads on crop rotation, Janna, but they will likely contradict themselves, as we are a contrary lot...!

Some people use a 3 year rotation, some use a 4 year rotation (me*), and some 'stick it in where there's a gap' (you know who you are, Snadge!).

I guess it depends on the layout of your plot, and how organised you are! I have eight beds at the Hill, so a four year plan is good for me - but frankly, the world won't end if you put leeks after onions or something - just try to follow on with something different than was there before.

* John Seymour says: "Manure that land heavily and sow potatoes. After the potatoes are lifted, lime the land heavily and the next year sow peas and beans. Once the peas and beans are lifted, set out the brassicas immediately from their seed bed. The brassicas will have been eaten by the next spring and it will be time for the mixed crops, and follow these with the roots, then back to spuds where we started."

Which means that:

plot A - limed over winter then legumes all summer followed by brassicas over winter (this will be next years misc.)
plot B - misc. crops (toms, squash, lettuce, melon) (this will be next years alliums/roots)
plot C - onions, carrots, parsnips (this will be next years spuds)
plot D - mucked over winter then spuds, followed by overwinter broad beans (this will be next years legumes)

Shouldn't spuds and toms be rotated together, being closely related? My 4-year rotation is peas'n'beans, followed by brassicas, followed by alliums and umbellifers (parsnips, celeriac, etc) followed by spuds'n'toms. I also grow courgettes, but as from next year, I'm going to grow them on a fixed site away from the veg. plots, on a compost trench, changing the compost each year, so that the growing medium is rotated under them, instead of them moving.

**Hazel at the Hill** · 30-10-2009, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by StephenH View Post

Shouldn't spuds and toms be rotated together, being closely related? .

I grow them as far apart as possible in the vain hope that if blight strikes the toms, it won't spread to the spuds - same family and all that.

**gojiberry** · 30-10-2009, 10:05 AM

I follow a loose crop rotation but find it difficult as not all crop take up the same space i.e. spuds take up far more room than the peas and beans. So I tend to end up "pocket planting" as well as I need all the space I have and then some.

Ian

**OllieMartin** · 30-10-2009, 10:48 AM

It's only my first year planting, but I've planned a 4 course rotation.

1) Potatoes (included tomatoes, chillies and squash)
2) Legumes (peas, french and runner beans)(included some lettuce to fill in the gaps)
3) Brassicas (swede, cauli's, cabbage, broccoli)
4) root veg (parsley, spinach beet, beetroot, carrots) (included some shallots)

Next year I'm not going to grow nearly as much of each so will hopefully get more into each bed, but will follow a similar plan. Although I've since read some contradicting advice regarding onions. Some say put them in the root veg bed, others the legume bed, but i've also read that they shouldn't go near some kind of bean, think it might have been runner.

**zazen999** · 30-10-2009, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by OllieMartin View Post

Although I've since read some contradicting advice regarding onions. Some say put them in the root veg bed, others the legume bed, but i've also read that they shouldn't go near some kind of bean, think it might have been runner.

They say that about onions - but honestly, I have seen no evidence of this. I grew my onions last winter in the same bed next to a strip of broadies and neither were a small harvest. In fact, tomorrow night we are having our annual 'onion bhajee with the biggest onion of the year' night - with an onion that is 675 g in weight and also produced 11 babies from its underside which are now happily growing away to make another 11 onions. These were grown right next to the beans all winter last year.

**jayjay giant** · 30-10-2009, 11:02 AM

There is a fantastic, simple and easy to understand plan in the book
"The vegetable expert"
by Dr D G Hessayon
ISBN 0-903505-20-7
Its a four year plan and fool proof !
Hope that helps

Jayjay

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