Grow Your Own Magazine

Starchild · #1 (**permalink**) 20-08-2008, 03:12 PM

We recently wrote to our housing association for permission to keep chickens. We were told that "Chickens were livestock and therefore no permission will be given for ANY tenant to have chickens on ***** property".
Aaah bugger. Never thought anymore about it ...that was until this morning when through the post I receieved the "***** times H/A newsletter, in there was a feature of a new tenant who keeps CHICKENS IN HER GARDEN....snotty letter now winging it's way to housing officer asking whether the tenancy agreement had been changed to allow chickens or are they now featuring and celebrating tenants in breach of their tenancy in the newsletter!

lynda66 · #2 (**permalink**) 20-08-2008, 03:35 PM

on my tenancy agreement you can keep pigeons ..... but not chickens ..... so i'm gonna get chickens anyway, if there is a problem, then we'll move them 6 feet to the neighbours garden cos he owns his house, and he'll tell them to bog off .... was also thinking of letting them completely free range, and telling the council they were wild chickens and had just 'appeared' and won't go away ..... bit like i did with the cats.

bluemoon · #3 (**permalink**) 20-08-2008, 04:48 PM

A year or two ago a couple had a bit of a battle with the courts as one of their hens had escaped and caused a car accident. They were trying to prove that their chickens were pets rather than livestock - a whole compensation issue rested with the result, with the couple being liable for loads of compensation to the car driver if they'd lost. I seem to remember that they won and the hens were considered as pets, possibly because they didn't benefit financially from sales of meat or eggs and didn't have a cock, so no breeding. Try telling your housing association that you want pet chickens, they're only birds after all, would they stop someone keeping a canary?

Hilary B · #4 (**permalink**) 20-08-2008, 06:21 PM

We own this house, but it was once a council house (about 4 owners before us). There is a 'restrictive covenant' in the deeds that forbids us keeping chickens. Owning the property is not always enough.

Starchild · #5 (**permalink**) 20-08-2008, 06:44 PM

If we were in teh middle of town I would understand, but we are literally in the middle of nowhere...meh!

Bephlam · #6 (**permalink**) 20-08-2008, 07:02 PM

Do you keep chickens Hilary, despite the restriction on the deeds?

Is there no way of having the restriction lifted from the deeds?

lynda66 · #7 (**permalink**) 20-08-2008, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hilary B

We own this house, but it was once a council house (about 4 owners before us). There is a 'restrictive covenant' in the deeds that forbids us keeping chickens. Owning the property is not always enough.

yeah, there is also a restriction in his deeds about restoring cars in your garden, he has had a mini there for 5 years, when the council came round to tell him to move it, he said nope i own the house i'll do what i want ....... they went and he never heard anything again ...... it would cost them far too much to take him to court .... they won't bother.

Starchild · #8 (**permalink**) 20-08-2008, 09:02 PM

you can get covenants lifted...

Quote:

Under Section 84 of the Law of Property Act 1925 a person interested in freehold land, or, in certain circumstances, long leasehold land, affected by any restriction, arising under a covenant or otherwise, as to its use or building upon it may apply to the Lands Tribunal to have the restriction discharged or modified.

Even if the applicant succeeds in discharging or modifying a covenant, they will not get their costs from any objectors. This is because the applicant is seeking an indulgence from the Tribunal to release them from an otherwise binding obligation. In addition, if the application fails the successful objector will usually get an award of costs.

The Tribunal may discharge or modify the restriction if it is satisfied that one or more of the grounds set out in the section are made out; and, if it orders the discharge or modification of the restriction, the Tribunal may award compensation to any person entitled to the benefit of the restriction.

The grounds in the section are that:

by reason of changes in the character of the property or the neighbourhood or other circumstances of the case which the Authority may deem material, the restriction ought to be deemed obsolete, or that the continued existence thereof would impede the reasonable user of the land for public or private purposes without securing practical benefits to other persons, or, as the case may be, would unless modified so impede such user; or
the persons of full age and capacity for the time being or from time to time entitled to the benefit of the restriction, whether in respect of estates in fee simple or any lesser estates or interests in the property to which the benefit of the restriction is annexed, have agreed, either expressly or by implication, by their acts or omissions, to the same being discharged or modified; or
the proposed discharge or modification will not injure the persons entitled to the benefit of the restriction:
The application
An application to discharge or modify a restriction must contain all the information set out in the Lands Tribunal Rules 1996, including an identification of the land which is subject to the restriction and the land which has or may have the benefit of the restriction. The identity of any person known or believed to have the benefit of the restriction must also be set out in the application. The ground or grounds in section 84 on which the applicant relies in seeking discharge or modification must be stated. It is very important to clearly state the reasons the applicant believes that any ground applies.

Plans which identify both areas of land must be included with the application together with a copy of the document which created the restriction, including a coloured copy of any plan mentioned in that document.

The Tribunal does not have jurisdiction to modify or discharge any covenant that is positive in character. Applications should not include such covenants. Any application that includes positive covenants cannot proceed until the Applicant has submitted an amended application.

Publication of notices
On receiving the application the Registrar determines what notices of the application are to be given to people who appear to be entitled to the benefit of the restriction. The applicant is directed to give personal notices to such people as can be identified by name and address, and notice by advertisement in respect of all others. The notices set out the substance of the application and require those who claim to be entitled to the benefit of the restriction who object to the application to give notice to the Registrar of their objection.

Notice of objection and admission of objectors
Notice of objection and any claim for compensation must be given in writing to the Registrar within 28 days of the notice of the application. The objector is required to state the basis upon which he/she claims to be entitled to the benefit of the restriction and the grounds of the objection. Where entitlement is not clear, a preliminary hearing may be held to decide disputes regarding who is entitled to object to the application.

Unopposed applications
In the case of applications to which no objection has been made, or in respect of which no one has been admitted or found entitled to oppose the application, the Tribunal may, with the consent of the applicant, determine the application without a hearing.

Opposed applications
Where objections have been made and not withdrawn, or where the grounds for the application have not been clearly established, an oral hearing will usually be held in order to decide the application.

Owning your home: Restrictive covenants

Eyren · #9 (**permalink**) 20-08-2008, 10:02 PM

Those covenants against chicken-keeping mostly date back to the interwar period when the government was encouraging former soldiers to take up poultry-farming and didn't want competition from home producers. It shouldn't be difficult to argue the obsolescence of that

Starchild · #10 (**permalink**) 30-08-2008, 06:29 PM

I WON I am getting my Chooks

lynda66 · #11 (**permalink**) 30-08-2008, 06:32 PM

WOOHOO

how did you manage it?did they listen over her being allowed them and not you?

Starchild · #12 (**permalink**) 30-08-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lynda66

WOOHOO

how did you manage it?did they listen over her being allowed them and not you?

Well apparently, they now "assess on a tenant by tenant basis dependant on garden space and condition" So they have totally changed their tune between May and August.

Nothing to do with a letter to H F-W I suppose I wrote

Two_Sheds · #13 (**permalink**) 30-08-2008, 08:40 PM

well done you.
a victory for common sense - chickens eat less and make less noise than either children or dogs

MaureenHall · #14 (**permalink**) 30-08-2008, 08:48 PM

Oh wow!!! Good for you

Very well done. When are you getting them?

I don't know if there's any restrictions about keeping chickens in my garden, didn't bother to find out (ooooooooo a bit risky I know!) Anyway, a couple of weeks ago when we had our allotment Open Day, I took 4 of the girls with me, set up a makeshift secure run with shelter (an umbrella), food and water. The local MP was there and was really supportive and encouraging about rescue chickens, so if there's a problem anywhere along the line, I'll refer them to the MP

seasprout · #15 (**permalink**) 30-08-2008, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starchild

Nothing to do with a letter to H F-W I suppose I wrote

Now dont mention that and not spill....!!

Common....... enlighten us.

Starchild · #16 (**permalink**) 30-08-2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seasprout

Now dont mention that and not spill....!!

Common....... enlighten us.

I wrote to H F-W moaning that our H/A despite being a rural one had this dumb rule about no chickens. I also went on and whinged about how the H/A was all about helping tenants save money and stuff then they do this. I had a lovely e-mail back saying that they were interested in this and would investigate. Suddenly bang, I'm having chooks.
Perhaps he threatened to name and shame?

Starchild · #17 (**permalink**) 30-08-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaureenHall

Oh wow!!! Good for you

Very well done. When are you getting them?

Once we get back from our trip to Wales and we have all the coop and stuff ready. October we hope. We are after some 18 week old PoL from a local place.

seasprout · #18 (**permalink**) 30-08-2008, 10:32 PM

Happy Ending.
Hurrah for Hugh, send him a picture of your chooks when you get them, may be they will come and film you.

Hugh Fernley-whittingstall wants you..

fruitynaga · #19 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starchild

I WON I am getting my Chooks

HURRAH! CONGRATULATIONS!
How are your plans going?

minskey · #20 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 09:17 PM

yeay - fab - many congrats

:d

Eyren · #21 (**permalink**) 06-09-2008, 07:42 AM

Congratulations! I bet you're so excited