Grow Your Own Magazine

I've never done this before but I'm curious to know what I would do/use and what the risks and problems are.

I've posted before about having a disused very overgrown plot full of mare's tail (I mean full, it's horrendous) and couch grass and bindweed - yep the full gamut. Nettles don't seem so bad anymore.

I've covered 90% of it with tarpaulins but it's still growing underneath and I'm beginning to consider using something chemical based on it whilst it's undercover to give it that extra oomph. What do you think? What do I use?

I am an absolute amateur in this respect, my instinct would just be to weed them out but I don't have a lot of time (3 young children and I work) and only get to the allotment at weekends anyway, selfish I know but I just want to be able to grow this/next year without thinking of it as a three year clearing project. The area I cleared and planted recently is absolutely chocka full of 6" high bindweed, couch grass and mare's tail seedlings after just two weeks of exposure to the light, my poor potatoes look very sorry for themselves, those that dared to show their face that is.

I know chemicals aren't a good thing but what exactly would I be using and what would it do to me/my children if I were to grow things on there after using chemicals this year and next year? By that I mean what would go into the vegetables if anything? Is it going to make me turn blue with green spots ??? Seriously, is there any benefit in using the chemicals, covering the area and then using it next year - would the chemicals have dissipated?

Thank you so much for all your wonderful advice - it's fantastic for a newbie like me!

i cant comment on any of what you asked but i saw a programme about a huge garden owned by the norther horticultural society. they had a lack of funds and workers and mares tail took over certain areas. they said there was no option but to spray. mares tail is meant to be nearly impossible to remove.

Hello MBJ, you sure have a problem there. The weeds you have are very pernicious and difficult to get rid of, especially the mares tails. I don't think you really have any alternative but to use weed killer on them and this will probably take several treatments.

As for using chemicals on ground where you want to grow, everything you buy in the shops has been treated with all sorts so you'll be no worse off. It will tell you on whatever product you buy when it is safe to plant and eat crops.

I would buy a weedkiller that kills right down to the roots - it will tell you on the labels. And a sprayer. They cost a few pounds but if you use a watering can you will get through much more weed killer. Mares tails are difficult to do as water just runs off them. The theory is bruise them first but you're inclined to get bits breaking off all over the place and I'm sure they all regrow. You could try wetting them with soapy water first and see if weedkiller sticks to them better. After you've sprayed and spray is dry cover them over with the tarpaulin. Don't expect everything to die instantly. It won't. You will probably have to repeat the weedkiller 2 or 3 times and keep covered for the best part of a year.

Sorry if this sounds pessimistic but it will work and can be done. It just takes time. Sure your just dying to grow something and see some results so pick a patch the size you think you can manage and just clear that bit by hand and start growing something for this year. It's not too late. Good luck and let's know how you get on.

I would use glyphosate - it's OK to plant stuff after the weeds are dead, it breaks down in the soil. Buy the concentrate, it's cheaper and a sprayer - look in the supermarkets at the moment they seem to do the cheapest. Or you can use a watering can as long as you don't use it for anything else.
The idea is to spray the young leaves of the weeds and the glyphosate gets taken down into the roots and kills the whole lot.
Spray on a dry day and you will see yellowing and wilting in a few days. Repeat after a week or two.
The old leathery leaves don't take it up as well so you might consider bashing some of the older stuff with a bill hook or similar and concentrate on spraying the younger stuff.
There is a thing called an Allen scythe which is like a hedge clipper on a sledge, which you can hire - this would cut everything off at ground level and then you could spray the new growth as it comes up. I don't know how much they cost to hire you'd have to ring around (they have enthusiasts and probably websites) but it would probably be the quickest solution. Definately do not rotovate as this just cuts the roots up into small pieces, which all grow...
You could chop down all the top stuff, spray it, then gradually dig out beds, depending how much time you've got - keeping an eye on the undug bits and spraying them as necessary.
Once you get it under control you can be as organic as you like but there's no point torturing yourself in the meantime.
Hope this helps.

Dont be afraid of weed killer. As said before... your commercial veg has been grown using chemicals and has been for years. You using it on your plot once or twice in the first couple of years will not harm you at all and will make your life much much easier.

__________________
Blogging Again at..
http://www.wizer.co.uk

Hi MBJ,

When I first took over my allotment there were 30 people above me on the waiting list and most had turned this one down. It sounds as if yours is in a similar way, so will give you the benefit of what i learnt.

My attitude is to grow as organically as possible, meaning if on occasion i need to use an odd chemical, be they fertilizers or weedkillers so be it. Truly organic gardens can only exist if you have a lot of time to spend on them.

Firstly find an allotment society near you that has a shop.....you do not need to have an allotment to join the society (nominal charge, mine is £1). You should be able to buy weedkiller at discounted prices. Mine sells 'Roundup' at £4 per litre (concentrated). This is my own experience but this is the stuff you need.

You need to decide whether you want an area to plant up this year or whether to leave the growing till next year. Assuming you want to treat all your plot, dilute the weedkiller to a slightly stronger than recommended dose and literally soak it all using a watering can......this is where high street bought becomes expensive! (Keep the kids off) Try and pick a day when it will be dry and hopefully for the following day as well. Over the next three weeks the weeds will turn yellow and die....you can just rake them up usually You will not get them all with one application and new weeds will grow that werent hit by the weedkiller. Some of the troublesome weeds such as mares tail may need to be crushed or bruised for the weedkiller to be effective...but go for the watering can approach for the first month to get rid of the majority.

Once I could see the soil again I started at one end, made a raised bed and double dug it incoproating manure etc as I went. Even though top growth was minimal the root system of these plants was incredible. I think you need this double pronged attack to get them to a manageable level for the years to come. I then worked my way down the allotment. Even if you dont make a raised bed, try to section areas off from one another with timber or bricks etc. Its more maneagable to pick a specific area to concentrate on than turn up and gaze at the full plot and the enormity of the task in hand.

All in all it took about 6 months to clear and dig the plot, make the raised beds etc etc. It seems like a daunting task but my weeding now consists of a little hoeing, the odd bit of mares tail....you will never eradicate it so dont get to hung up, and the occasional dandilion.

Good luck, go for it and hope this helps in a little way

__________________
Geordie

Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure

Thank you everybody, I'm definitely going to do it I've decided. The infestation is so bad that I just don't have the time to dig it out properly. I'm going to buy some roundup from somewhere, treat the area and then cover it with the tarpaulins again until next spring. Thankfully the top growth is quite low because I covered it up before it had really started to get going this spring so I'm hoping it won't be too hard for the chemicals to get at the root systems. I'll leave it then until next spring and dig up each section as I uncover it trying to get all the roots out whilst they're dormant.

I'll see what happens with the section I've uncovered this year but seeing how quickly and densely the weeds are coming back, I may have to use weed killer on that once the potatoes are out.

Any idea how to keep grass paths down? I have bordering grass paths and they're almost knee high every time I go. I don't have a petrol powered strimmer and no other way to cut it down other than perhaps grass shears? (is that the right term, are they grass shears?) My dad thought walking on them would keep them down but it doesn't. We only go at the weekends so it isn't getting enough trampling. How do people usually keep grass paths manageable without buying/hiring petrol strimmers?

we have a petrol strimmer on our site, but i like to use shears to keep the paths down.

__________________
Blogging Again at..
http://www.wizer.co.uk

If you shop around you may be able to pick up a cheap 2nd hand petrol mower that will keep it in trim, but you'll need a strimmer or shears or even a scythe for a start off to get it short enough to mow - local Hire shop may be a good bet as you'll only want it once!

If you don't mind a bit of hard work an old hand mower (no engine apart from you !!) will be a lot cheaper to pick up & might not be so desirable to nick sorry I meant steal as no mower is desirable to me

__________________
ntg

Never be afraid to try something new.
Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark.
A large group of professionals built the Titanic

http://grief-encounters.blogspot.com/

Weed clearing next to a hedge?!

Hi, I;m new to all this, but have found it's great to read the advice of others regarding clearing weed infested allotments!

I've just taken on an allotment which has some bind weed (not half as bad as my previous allotment which I desperatly tried this year to keep under control organically/by hand... and learnt that I can't!)

Having learnt my lesson that I will need to occassionally use weed killer e.g to clear my site, my next concern is that my new allotment is right next to a hedge. The allotment is full of different sized roots - presumably from the hedge.

If i weed kill the plot using Glyphosate a couple of times, will it harm the hedge at all? It's about 2m away from the actual trunks.

And also, how the heck am I gonna get the roots out of my allotment.... dig, dig and more digging?

Q-1 first.
Either.
Use a watering can, pretty well any time.
or
Sprayer on a windless day.

Glyphosate is absorbed via the green parts of the plant, once it hits the ground it will not affect the roots.
The only way it will harm the hedge is if the spray drifts onto the leaves, hence the above advice.

Q-1.
Depends how big the roots are. If they are from the hedge than removing too many will do (potentially) as much harm as some spray drift.
Within ten feet or so of the hedge, provided you can single dig I would leave them alone, but consider constructing raised beds on the rooty area, or using it for compost bins etc.
Remember that a healthy hedge will suck up quite a bit of water in the summer so these alternative uses may be the best way to use the ground nearest the hedge.
Further away they are unlikely to be hedge roots, more likely to be perennial weeds such as couch, bindweed and nettles, potentially also bramble and blackthorn (both these two will invade as some of my fellow plotholders know only too well), all of which the glyphosate should see off, provided you have left enough greenery above ground to absorb it.

Hope this helps, it is based on an assumption of a more or less suburban hedge, guess you'll say its twenty foot tall hawthorn , in which case, get permission to layer it this winter, then follow same plan above next year, but over ten foot out use the mattock and hand axe to cut and remove any substantial roots, anything below 1/4 inch should decay over a year or two he says hopefully.

Layering involves cutting most of the way through the tree/shrub stems and the using stakes from surplus limbs/stems weaving the stems (or arranging the stakes if the stems are too thick to weave) into a living fence, it removes alot of top growth, makes the hedge a manegable height and cuts its water demand allowing the roots to be curtailed.

Run away with myself a bit on this one, but very sympathetic to your plight.

__________________
Always thank people who have helped you immediately, as they may not be around to thank later.
Visit my blog at http://podsplot.blogspot.com/
I support http://www.hearingdogs.org.uk/

Hi Fairy,

Where's the path for your plot? Do yo share the existing path with someone else or would it be easier to just make the hedge side your access route ?

__________________
ntg

Never be afraid to try something new.
Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark.
A large group of professionals built the Titanic

http://grief-encounters.blogspot.com/

Fab advice Peter!

Nick, my hedge is the wrong side to use as anything more than compost area & potential rhubarb site (previoulsy the dumping ground!)

Its about 12ft tall hedge altogether. Consisting of.... erm, trees -like a maple and Hydraingers (you know what I mean!) and some other shrubs!!! So they are pretty established.

Some roots are more than a quarter inch thick, so thinking about things logically, I might just tell the council they need to do something with it (to get it to a managable state) and then build raised beds - bonus idea!!!

As for the weed killer, I;m gonna bite my tounge and go for it...!!! Then when its clear (after a couple applications) I'll grow some green manure of some sort over the winter...? Can;t wait till next srping now!!!

Thanks everyone!

We too suffer terribly from bind weed, we don't want to use chemicals and have the laborious task of hand pulling them! But, I have signed up to win one of those 'Weed wand' weed killing devices, which blast the weeds with 1000 degree heat. Has anyone thought of trying that instead? It's on the homepage under 'Giveaways'. If I don't win one, they're only £14.95 on the Parasene site, which isn't too bad!

Hi Green Gardener, those weed wands are great for killing off annuals but only burn off the top growth of the perennials like bind weed. Unfortunately it soon grows back.

__________________
Kindest regards, David.

http://pigletsplots.blogspot.com/
updated lots - Sunday 28th at 1640hrs

When I took over my plot last year the council used weed killer & then rotovated it but the weeds came back with a vengance & we are gradually digging them out, maretail, bind weed etc so Idon't think that it is always the best way to go.

__________________
Lets teach kids to cook.

I totally agree, I only use glysophate occasionally on bindweed and marestail as I just dont have the time to keep on top of it always. Once its in amongst fruit for example there is no easy way to get it out. For 98% of the time we hand weed by hoeing off annuals or by using a trowel for dandelions and docks. I fear however due to the depth of the mares tail root you will only eradicate it by using a weedkiller.

__________________
Kindest regards, David.

http://pigletsplots.blogspot.com/
updated lots - Sunday 28th at 1640hrs

My plot seems to have a couple of bands of infestation; Bindweed down the bottom end, and Horsetail (Equisetum telmateia - not to be confused with Mare's tail (Hippuris vulgaris) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsetail ) just north of middle.

I intend on Round-up-ing the Bindweed, and will try to take the approach regarding Horsetail where you keep cutting it down an inch below ground level until you use up all its reserves of energy. I do only have a small amount to contend with thankfully - unlike some of my neighbours with forests of the stuff peeking out between the spuds, cabbages etc - who seem to swear by the rotovator and does do more harm than good it seems with regard to Horsetail.

Failing that, maybe a small thermo-nuclear device will get rid of it? Would that fall in the category of "organic", I wonder

__________________
Obo

The way I see it, Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

I'm struggling to follow the links (new to the site today!) and have a similar problem. I have recently used pathclear (a six month weed control product) to clear an area which I have now decided I want to use for vegetables. Are there any dangers? I want to my veg to be as organic as possible.

Glyphosate is definately the way to go. When I first took on my lottie I knew there would be no way of clearing it without having to resort to chemicals. Before choosing which product to use I did some research and what I found out was quite interesting.

Glyphosate is 'relatively' safe as it breaks down in the environment. However this does not happen immediaetly on contact with soil as some packaging may lead you to believe. The mechanism isn't fully understood but the chemical binds with soil particles making it inert and breaks down over a period of time.

From what I have read it would appear that a greater risk to the environment is posed by the surfactants that are added to the chemical in order to make it adhere to the leaves. The big brands seem to use more of these surfactants and so I choose from the lesser known brands which retail as concentrated glyphosate not (BRAND NAME) containing glyphosate.

Path clear type weedkillers can stay active for longer as some contain chemicals to suppress regrowth and inhibit seed germination. As a result planting in ground on which this type of weedkiller has been used should be delayed for at least six months and perhaps longer.

Hope this makes sense. I haven't mentioned particular brands because I cannot reliably state where I have read the information relating to them. If you feel inclined I'm sure a 'Google' will bring up the relevant information.

__________________
It is the doom of man, that they forget.

My plot is very overgrown having been empty for about 6 years. As well as all the usual weeds it is also full of brambles, about 8ft high in places! After a lot of badgering the council say they are going to cut it all down but I shall still be left with the roots which I realise will take a while to get rid off - if ever! Would Glyphosate work on those or is there something better available? Also, and I apologise now if this is a really stupid question but this is all new to me, is it best to burn the dead stuff left from spraying? I assume it isn't suitable for the compost bin.