Grow Your Own Magazine

Hi all,
First post here. Great resource.

Ive just taken on an allotment with a few friends. Its very overgrown with weeds etc. I figured it would be better to kill everything before planting.
I thought the best thing to do would be to cut everything back and cover it with a black membrane for about a year or so before planting any veg.
Is this the best approach? Im a very patient person and dont mind waiting ( though I hope my friends will share my patience).
Would it be better to dig up and turn over the soil before covering or would I be giving us unnecessary work?
Any hints , etc would be appreciated.
Thanks
Jim

That kind of patience just isn't natural!!!!!!!!!!!
I just rotavated, weeded, dug, weeded, rotavated,weeded etc - and a crop the same year.
I suppose it depends whether you prefer patience to digging!!
Good luck.......

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Tx

What ever you do, even if you cover it for a year, you are still going to get weeds come up.

Cover it in areas that are easily managable for intense digging.

Dig one area at a time, taking out as much root and rubbish as possible. Dependant upon your soil type and condition, add compost to make it nice and friable.

Plant something up. Nothing saps the willpower more than getting no results from your hard work.

Start on the next area, doing the same. All the while weeding the first area. If you have got the soil right, the weeds will just pull out like a breeze.

Don't try to do whacking great areas.

Well that's my advice for what it's worth

Lots of different methods and divided opinions on this, Jim!

Personally, I'd strim the whole lot to ground level, cover with a thick layer of manure, then cover with a layer of stout cardboard weighed down with bricks, then retire to the pub until March when I'd plant potatoes through holes through the rotting down cardboard.

You'll have to use a fork to dig up the spuds next summer, but by that time the underlying weeds will have rotted away and the ground will have benefited from the manure, and the worms will have done most of the digging for you. Also it will feel less like hard work digging and more like harvesting your lovely produce.

Alternatively, bribe a working party of a dozen friends and family with a barbie and beer for after they've all pitched in a spent the day digging over your plot.

Welcome to the Vine.

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Hazel
www.hazelandjanesallotment.blogspot.com
update Sat 04/10/2008......sorry, Keats......

If it was me I would spray the site with Roundup BEFORE cutting it down, wait 2 weeks for it to go yellow, and then spot-treat anything that was still green, wait another week or so, and then Rotavate the lot.

I would then spray once more when any rubbish comes up (although, if it is Summer from now on I doubt that much will come up, in which case don't bother) and then get planting.

Please note: Roundup will kill everything it comes into contact with, so don't put it on anything you want to keep, including the soles of your shoes / boots if you are then going to walk across some lawn etc!

You can also apply it with a watering can, but make sure you wash the can out VERY thoroughly afterwards, or borrow one from someone who keeps a can just for using with weedkiller.

On a scale of 1-10 Roundup is very safe, and even if you are not keen on herbicides I recommend that you do it just the once to get you going.

The thing is........what do you get an allotment for? Answer has to be to grow stuff in! And the quicker the better!

I am an allotment Secretary and we have people on our waiting list who would love to 'get stuck in' and grow veg.
I personally wouldn't be too happy if we let an allotment and the rentee came one day, covered it with black membrane and said " Ok you lot, I'll see you all in March!"eek:
To rent an allotment you need to show a certain level of comittment and realise that others on the waiting list would be chomping at the bit to get started cultivating there plot and growing veg.

Sorry all, I seem to be turning into a GRUMPY OLD GIT!

Rant over!

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My Majesty made for him a garden anew in order
to present to him vegetables and all beautiful flowers.- Offerings of Thutmose III to Amon-Ra (1500 BCE)

That was our plan.

ha hahah ha! Have you tried getting manure at this time of year? I do have the advantage that I'm not, after all, going to lose me lottie. The local "lottie policewoman" has been round and said we're doing "a brilliant job". Very heavy duty work that we know will produce nought but looks good to the lottie police.

Greenhouse frame is up, but due to lottie police removing "a load of aluminium" from my site, I have a lot of it missing. Can't find how to replace the bits as it came from recycle so don't know the make.

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"I prefer rogues to imbeciles as they sometimes take a rest" (Alexander Dumas)

Horses still poo in the summer - try your local stables/riding school.

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Hazel
www.hazelandjanesallotment.blogspot.com
update Sat 04/10/2008......sorry, Keats......

Give it a good dowsing of glypfosate, cover to omit light for a couple of weeks then dig it over. You could probably plant in the Autumn things like swiss chard, garlic, japanese onions and broad beans that will be ready for next year. You then can concentrate on the rest of the plot and design it for next year. And welcome to the vine Jim.

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good Diggin, Chuffa.

Chuffa

My understanding was that all the weedkillers around like Roundup that contain glyphosate and are systemic, require light as photosynthisis needs to take place for the roots to be killed off. If I'm wrong, I do apologise

That's my understanding too S.S., but I could be wrong too!

"Have you tried getting manure at this time of year?"

Cow sheds are normally mucked-out before harvest, so there is likely to be cow manure available between now and autumn cultivation.

But beware of the issues with the herbicide Forefont contaminating manure

I got my plot in Feb/March. Six foot high in nettle/bramble/couch grass.
I started clearing a patch, planted it or covered it up (cardboard/old carpet). You must cover the cleared ground or the weeds will just come back.
Then cleared another patch. And another.
I am self-sufficient in veg now, and have about 2/3 of the plot productive. The remaining third still needs digging over.

Don't try and do it all in one go.

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~ What do I think of Western civilisation? I think it would be a very good idea ~ Gandhi

Thanks all for the replies- Certainly some food for thought (pardon the pun).
Im not very keen on using any chemicals which is why I thought of starving the weeds of light.
The allotment is very neglected so it wouldnt be just a case of covering the ground and coming back in March. There is a shed that needs dismantling, a greenhouse that needs rebuilding and various other bits and pieces so I would still be there quite often maintaining the site.
Considering the state of the place I assume that the other plot-holders will be happy to see some work being done regardless- it must be quite infuriating to constantly get weeds blowing in from other peoples plots.
Im not in as much of a rush as I have been growing veg in a small space in my garden with quite some success (spuds,leaves, betroots,etc).
As a complete novice Im just looking for some tips to save me unneccessary work- I dont mind the necessary stuff. I was also hoping to spend my "waiting time" watching how the others manage their plots.
Im expecting a very steep learning curve.
All the best
Jim

ps- I bought some black membrane to cover as I thought that old carpet could leech chemicals in to the soil.
Hard to tell fact from fiction- especially on the internet.
Do you think that this is the case or am I being overly cautious?

Carpets are now banned on a lot of sites. I think it's more to do with the fact that if left, weeds will grow through them rendering them virtually impossible to remove again.

I still use old carpet to clear a patch of ground. Thick layers of cardboard & newspaper (soaked in water first) are good too ... and they rot into the soil, enriching it.

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~ What do I think of Western civilisation? I think it would be a very good idea ~ Gandhi

I think carpet is more of a money-saving tip than anything else. If you don't mind buying membrane, or have access to some, that's fine.

If you have that much patience all you need is a digging fork. Start now in a corner and keep going bit by bit right through until next spring!

Seriously though I'm sure you would enjoy it if you start growing asap as others have said. Digging is the best method of removing the weeds and roots plus its free and you prepare the soil for your crops. Other threads are talking about crops to plant at this time of year and it wouldn't take too long to clear an area for some onions and brassicas. Remember you don't need to clear the whole plot just enough for each crops needs.

Personally I'd also consider using gylphosate a few weeks before digging as it will help you a lot.

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http://plot62.blogspot.com/

I put some carpet and old fence panel down on a very weedy plot. Within 6 months virtually ALL the weeds & roots were dead (just a few very weak bindweeds remained). There were about 38 frogs under the fence panel too !

It was unbelievably easy to fork over and get planted. Don't break yourself by digging it now. Kill off the weeds first.

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~ What do I think of Western civilisation? I think it would be a very good idea ~ Gandhi

Worth checking if you have any if the "really bad weeds".

Mares tail : Roundup is unlikely to do much with that, careful diging and extracting will give you the best start (and covering with mulching sheet for 6 - 9 months will also help)

Bindweed or Ground Elder : Roundup will knock that back seriously, and I don't care what anyone says, you won't find every root if you dig the soil, and every little bit you leave, and break, will grow into a plant

I wouldn't be too worried about nettles and brambles - IMHO they succumb pretty easily to hoeing once the ground is operational.

How about:

If you REALLY don't want to use Roundup:

Cut everything down

Rotavate

Put manure on the top (Rotavate it in is better, but only if you can get some in time)

Cover with mulching plastic

When you are ready to plant (e.g. in the Spring) just plant straight through the mulch - that will give you a further N months of mulch to kill the remaining weeds

If you rotavate perennials like bindweed and couch grass, you just increase the quantity of plants (a new plant will grow from every little scrap of root that you cut up) ~ they will survive thin mulches, but carpet will certainly weaken them.

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~ What do I think of Western civilisation? I think it would be a very good idea ~ Gandhi

You probably are right, but it works for me.

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good Diggin, Chuffa.

If you do get a bit twitchy you could always resort to napalm - that'll clear a space.

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A simple dude trying to grow veg.

http://haywayne.blogspot.com/ - Tuscany update - 27th September

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