Winter Veg Advice Please

It's getting a bit late to sow some things which need a long season, like leeks, purple sprouting broccoli, brussel sprouts, but, you'll probably find them as young plants in B&Q or garden centre. There may still be time to sow kale, swedes, spring cabbages etc. Check the back of seed packets for the last sowing date.

And over-wintering onions and garlics will go in in a couple of months time.

Helenuk, you're probably better to split it into three or four and rotate your crops annually, growing brassicas on one bed, roots on another, legumes on a third, then plant the relevant winter crops in each bed. Things such as Savoy cabbages and Brussels sprouts give good reliable winter crops in your brassica bed, leeks planted in with the onions can be pulled all winter etc. It doesn't mean you'll have to give up large portions of the appropriate bed for winter crops as they usually go in late and can follow on, for instance I always sow leeks late then pop them in where the first early potatoes have been. There are lots of possible overwintering crops too, such as broad beans and autumn sown onions which will give you an early crop come spring, and plenty of things such as winter lettuce, corn salad and parsnips which can be harvested when needed. Crop rotation is important as it prevents a build-up of pests and diseases and your legumes will fix nitrogen this year which your cabbages will love the next.

As regards crop rotation, am I right in thinking the order is like this?) roots (potatoes etc) go where you had leaves (brassicas, lettuce) the year before; the leaves go where you had seeds (peas, beans etc) last year and the seeds go where the roots were the year before. If you divide your plot into four, you can leave one plot fallow, which is what they used to do in mediaeval times - but it does seem a waste of space these days! However, it means you are looking after the soil and not just the plants. As regards rotation, on a piece of paper, write the three (or four) items in a block with anti clock-wise arrows linking them (that is if I have got it right); otherwise I think it is quite difficult to remember which goes where.

The problem then ensues do you like EATING equal amounts of each plant group?

I don't want to confuse you Helenuk, but splitting your garden in 2 may not be the best way to do things. Sounds like you would leave your summer garden empty all winter and your winter garden empty all summer, when you could be thinking what crop could I put in there once that one comes out.
It's a big subject and takes a lot of experience - I'm still working on getting the maximum use of the ground.
I would suggest you think in terms of - what can I plant in that ground after my PSB comes out.
What will give me a crop out of that ground before my swedes are planted in June.
Don't worry too much about it. I'm sure your family won't die if you end with a few square yards not producing, It's just a goal to work towards. Enjoy the quest and the journey.

Crop rotation is excellent if you have plenty of room and don't mind dormant ground. Usually I am so stuck for space that the crops go in where there is a space. I suppose I do practice crop rotation to a certain extent as I very rarely plant the same family in succession and each start of year I do move the beds on. I would like to grow a green manure now and again but never have the space.

Ian

Well I only started my garden in April and went for a 4 bed system, bed as I didn't get my summer crop in very early, I won't get it out in time for much of a winter crop. Hopefully next year I'll be better prepared though.

Winter Veg varieties

I just wanted to know what veg plants and varieties people are planning to sow for winter or spring harvest.
So far I have spring onions, garlic and some late potatoes.
This is my first time of trying to produce winter and spring veg as I have been concentrating my efforts in the winter in getting the plot ship shape so have only started sowing in spring time.

Another bit of information is that I live in Manchester so people that have had success with varieties in the north would help even more.

I would be grateful for any information.

Welcome to the Vine Redic87.
I plant my garlic in Oct / Nov and the variety I use is Melody - Scottish winter hardy.

There is a theory (tested in practice) that crop rotation is not necessary on the scale used by most gardeners because you're only moving the crops a few feet anyway. If you have ten acres of spuds it's probably not a good idea to keep using the same ground year after year for the same crop. Having said that, my own small plot is divided into 4 and i do practice rotation because that's what i was taught to do. Daft really because I don't suppose the club root and eelworms stop just because I've made a line along the soil.

I will again sow Broad bean Aquadulce end of October/November to over winter and harvest early spring to miss the black fly. I will have a bed of Feltham Firsts overwintering for early peas, these will set the nitrogen for brassicas after the legumes.

I have parsnips in trugs waiting for a frost which will see me through the winter. Leeks Musselburgh go in the ground next week as they are pencil sized. Will over winter garlic again not sure what sort as I wait see what my Solent Wights look like in a few weeks.

I will sow some Senshyus again for green use next spring. White Lisbon spring onions overwintered well last year so will do that again.

Will put in onion sets in October.

Kale is already planted (greens through winter and reds, lovely buttered and quick fried)and I have purple sprouting broccolli - 15 plants that have grown like triffids and are about 3 foot tall preparing to do battle with the caterpillars.

Oh and BTW welcom to the madvine, ever consider hens

Hi Helen,
Last year was my first attempt at winter veg after many years of summer veg only growing. It was interesting but a bit frustrating as stuff grows very slowly.
You might find it worthwhile to see what is being sold by garden centres for winter use right now, or perhaps look at the online plant catalogues from the seed companies, then sow seeds quickly if you are in a favourable area; but they do not cover everything that is possible.
If you are in a favourable area - or if you have cloches to use then do try a patch of winter lettuce/corn salad as they are hardy and very tasty in spring. Also perennial rocket sown now will pop up again in early spring.
This year I am growing leeks [3 varieties - 2 types of which were given me as surplus by by fellow allotmenteers] spring cabbages, cauliflowers, purple sprouting broccoli, onions, garlic, broad beans, round peas. If you have an allotment go and chat to the others and see what they are doing/planning and ask them what succeeds and planted when.
The big issues raised here is crop rotation, which is very sensible, but also don't forget to factor in when these crops are out of the ground next year.
Crop rotation can be awkward if you use your land over 12 months as the timing is important for the follow on crops - so you might want to think about what you want in your soil after the winter crops are over - and when it might be free as some winter crops are still cropping into April and beyond [and you might want to put in potatoes etc in the spring].
Having a plan in mind for next year really helps with this frustration!

Ann

Potatoes will die at the first touch of frost, so keep them in a greenhouse after October ish.

I'll be sowing radish & broad beans in October/November.

the plot is already full of the winter greens, which are sown in April, planted out in July.

you'll still be able to buy some young plants at nurseries etc.

No, but if you continually plant brassicas in the same place, the soil will get very alkaline (if you add lime) and exhausted.

I rotate to keep the soil overall, in good nick.
Brassicas move onto last year's bean patch, to take up the nitrogen that the beans have left.

just as an example