I want to cry!

**northepaul** · 28-04-2010, 08:59 PM

Sounds like a bummer with the couch grass/soil Donna

I dont have an allotment, but can imagine how disheartening it must be for you to have all the work seem like its been for nothing.
I have awful clay soil in some part of my garden too, and even with working manure and sand in, its still either hard as a rock, or waterlogged sometimes. I guess its a case of keep adding the good stuff..(obviously not easy with couch grass)??

What about raised beds and covering the soil with membrane?

Sorry not much help, just wanted to offer some virtual tea and (real) sympathy!

**zazen999** · 28-04-2010, 09:02 PM

Level it. mark out your paths and cover with weed fabric and only walk on those parts.

For the beds, cover with cardboard and manure; if you have no manure - use clods of the clay soil to hold the cardboard down.

then, this season, plant through the cardboard.

If your lottie chum and you disagree, then perhaps you need to have half each and do that half well - rather than argue about method! Otherwise they might come along and undo all your good work.

**Glutton4...** · 28-04-2010, 09:02 PM

I sympathise Hun, but all is not lost. You really need to sit down with your Lottie partner and discuss what and how you are going to approach the allotment. Even if it means agreeing to disagree, and do half each, your own separate way.

Glyphosate is fine if you need to use it, and Couch grass is a big enough menace, I can see why you've used it. However, it only kills what is actively growing. Whatever was under the ground won't have been treated. Next time you turn the soil, you will expose more, and it will grow. Removing it is not a quick process, but it is possible, over time.

Rotavating will only exacerbate the problem, as it breaks up everything; soil, roots, runners - everything. One Couch grass root, rotavated will make two, three, five, ten more plants! Personally, I'd remove what comes up, as it comes up.

It sounds like your soil could do with a good helping of organic matter to help free it up too. It'll come good in the end, though, so don't worry, and if you want to yell about it, well, that's what we're here for!

Good luck!

**zazen999** · 28-04-2010, 09:06 PM

Yeah, I should have added; the couch grass is weakened as it has less light - so you can pull it through the season and when you remove the cardboard at the end - you can easily pull up 95% of what's left as the roots aren't as strong as if they are exposed to the light.

di · 28-04-2010, 09:19 PM

Hi Donna.Try not to lose heart,the clearing is the hardest bit but you only have to do it the once

Not sure how it will work with the beds that have been put in but how I'm tackling our newish plot is to roughly mark out beds using sheets of black plastic,soaking the ground before I lay down the plastic and then as I dig I'm using the weed roots and any clods that I struggle to release weeds from to weigh down the plastic.The sun dries them out sufficiently to put on our 'rubbish' compost and where the plastic was is then a little easier to work.
Another thing I've found is that it's best to keep the grass growing until you're ready to dig that area...prevents the sun from drying the soil rock hard...or at least delays it

Good Luck with however you decide to work yours.It's not an easy time to be starting out,but with each bit done it will get easier.

**jackyspratty** · 28-04-2010, 09:27 PM

Yep, thanks guys that sounds like a plan! Like the idea of cardboard manure and holes. The problem left is how to level it? It is seriously hard, uneven large clumps! Felt like I was on a chain gang today!

Am hoping that after some rain the ground will be softer and easier to breakdown and maybe.....(takes a sigh and imagines!)...rake!
If it doesnt soften cant see how it can be levelled, hence the desperate rotivator idea!

Thanks tho! Sorry about the rant! I could just see all my seedlings wilting iin the polytunnel and having to pull out of the seed saving group as well! Thanks for calming me down. Appreciated

**zazen999** · 28-04-2010, 09:29 PM

Can you take a photo and post it before you do anything else?

We started with thick clay 2 seasons ago and have added loads of cardboard and coffee grounds - no manure until this season - and the soil has improved immensely [and 95% of the couch grass is also gone now].

We also go out after rainstorms so that we can weed with the soil wetter - it really makes a difference!

**jackyspratty** · 28-04-2010, 09:41 PM

Ill nip up tomorrow and take photos. Is it easy to do an atachment? Not very literate in this!

Thanks again, was ready to throw up my azada in despair!

**SarzWix** · 28-04-2010, 11:06 PM

Pray for rain Donna, the day before you can get to the allotment, for preference

Seriously though, my soil is just like that in places at the moment. The sunshine, breezy weather and lack of rain has dried the roughly dug clods into rocks

I would suggest watering it - if you have water onsite all the better, but if not take water every time you visit in saved bottles or whatever. Water, then cover with cardboard/plastic/soaked newspapers whatever, so that it traps the moisture. Then next time you go, the clods should break down a lot easier, and the roots lift out a lot easier too.

But rain would be even better

**Two_Sheds** · 29-04-2010, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by jackyspratty View Post

My lotty buddy said that the gypho would kill the root too?

the stuff you buy in the shops just isn't strong enough: I used it repeatedly last year on some stubborn patches that I couldn't cover, and it doesn't kill the roots.

I am still digging up thick nettles that were sprayed 3 or 4 times, and they are regrowing.

My neighbour has had her couch grass covered with carpet for 6 months, and it's worked a treat. We dug a bed over for her last week, and the soil is lovely: moisty, crumbly, full of worms. Any couch roots that remain have been seriously weakened and are easy to pull out.

Go with Zazen's idea. I'd also split the plot if you can't agree an action plan with your lotty partner.

**Hans Mum** · 29-04-2010, 07:29 AM

we're on the same soil as you & you need to incorporate loads & loads of manure etc as has been said above, there's a horse place on the ringroad past Sainsbugs where you can just turn up & take as much as you want & its really well rotted, let me know ifyou want the details.

**smallfrog** · 29-04-2010, 07:40 AM

Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.

I'd split plot as then its your baby to do what you want on and grow what you please. Sharing is hard work!

Do a couple of beds well so you can get stuff growing and then worry about the rest.

Ground here is solid and pretty unworkable at the mo but hopefully it will rain soon. Maybe getting some willing friends for a digging party. I did that with my hugee hedge, bbq and beer and got lots done.

**zazen999** · 29-04-2010, 07:45 AM

I just couldn't share - esp if the person you are sharing with wants to do it the hard way!

**Flummery** · 29-04-2010, 09:22 AM

I shared - we had our own half and didn't interfere with each other. Consequently, we got on fantastically, shared surplus produce etc.

You need to do it your own way. Lots of manure, cover the weeds, as said above by those who know! I would get down there with string and sticks and say, "This bit's mine and I'm doing it like this."

Then do what you want to - dig out roots, chop up soil, rake, rake, rake (esp after rain) and you will enjoy your plot again.

Best of luck with it.

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