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  • #1

    November Issue Allotment waiting lists

    I read the article today and I must say that i was slightly disappointed in the line taken. Mark Hall has said that the solution (to high waiting lists) is simple by just cutting the size of the allotments down. His suggestion included cutting plots into 3 or 4 to cut the waiting lists. Now where I have we heard that before?

    I don't know what the solution is mainly because I don't understand the problem, I don't think anyone does.

    Some years ago I applied for an allotment in my town. I specified the site I wanted and was told that it might be 4 or 5 years before I would get to the top of the list. 6 months later I walked on the allotments and had my pick of 8 unused plots. Five others selected their plots and two plots remained unworked for sometime. I have been told that there is no waiting list for plots on our site. There are a few plots that have not been worked for sometime.

    So that is my experience. Are there enough plots or is there a problem with the administration of the sites. I say this knowing that some sites (probably most) are administered by an overworked council staff member who probably got volunteered to do the job and are trying their hardest to do the job as efficiently as possible. The same can be said by association run sites. So cutting plot sizes may not be the answer.

    This leads to the non-cultivation issue and how many plots are used by non-attending renters? Those that thought it was a good idea but found the commitment required just too much. Similarly those that started well but circumstances changed and made it impossible for them to continue. Changing the size may not help either of these renters.

    In the article the comment was that gardens with houses were too small. If that really were the problem then councils could tell the developers that gardens must be bigger. However, this will not solve the problem for flat dwellers, neither will it solve the problem of gardens paved over for car parking.

    So perhaps rather than quoting figures we need to carry out a survey and get to grips with what the problem is and not try to sort the "symptom" of the problem. Once this is understood perhaps a way forward could be found.

    As I have said, I don't know the problem, there may be other factors that need to be considered that I have not thought about. Others will know what is happening in their area. I do not want to see a "solution" put in place which has huge problems later on.

    I found it strange that the article also said to comment on facebook and twitter. I don't belong to either and this more than anything spurred me on to start this thread.

    I look forward to reading others opinions.

    Bill
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  • #2
    Yes indeed Bill there does seem to be a leaning towards "social media" rather than the forum in some of the magazine articles, possibly because there the replies tend to be brief & stay on topic, where here we sometimes have lateral thoughts which can influence the direction of the thread.
    As to the question about allotment size I doubt that there is a "one size fits all" type answer.
    He who smiles in the face of adversity,has already decided who to blame

    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity

    Comment

    • #3
      Or maybe they know the forum is going downhill.
      sigpic“Gorillas are very intelligent, but they don't have to be as delicate as chimps -- they can just smash open the termite nest,”
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      • #4
        The twitter account has over 22,000 followers. If all of those are real (I am cynical), that's a very wide reach for soundbite quotes, which is all twitter generates.

        The forum here is currently showing over 1,500 viewers, only 37 members, the rest are guests or 'bots. It's still a big forum, but I think all the forums go through dips and highs.

        Back on topic - I'd lay money this article was commissioned in August when Charlie Dimmock and Saint Titchmarch (neither of whom have allotments) said (full) plots should be split in half or quarters. In the manner of Chinese whispers this was picked up by the broadsheets and tabloids. And all over twitter. I have a quarter plot, 45sqm. It's bigger than many back gardens but still tiny for veg growing.
        http://mudandgluts.com - growing fruit and veg in suburbia

        Comment

        • #5
          Hi all,

          Thank you for your thoughts on this. The news story referenced above was taken from a survey by BigGreen and the quotes were provided by one of its spokespeople. This doesn't necessarily reflect the magazine's standpoint on the issue (as you say, it is complex) but we do need to report the story as it came to us.

          As you mention, the issue has been in the news quite a lot lately, so it is important for us to be flagging it up. The reason we ask for a response at the end of pieces like this is that it isn't a cut and dry issue and many growers will have had different experiences and thoughts on this.

          Coming on to why we asked for social media responses in particular - this really comes down to the space constraints on the page. Twitter (in particular) is very concise, whereas the forum tends to lend itself to more detailed responses. Also, the forum is flagged up each month on our Allotment Noticeboard page, so we like to make sure the other platforms are mentioned as well, and certainly aren't trying to alienate any area.

          I hope this answers some questions, but we are always open to suggestions and comments so please do let us know any feedback.

          Thanks

          Laura
          Keep up to date with GYO's breaking news on twitter and facebook!

          Twitter: @GYOmag
          Facebook: facebook.com/growyourownmag

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          • #6
            I agree that both the problem and the solution are complex.

            I've experienced the mal-administration, too, but since the site is administered by an overworked volunteer, there's even more room for not expecting change there.

            I think, personally, that while I understand the argument for full plots for self-sufficiency, that's not what every plot holder or wannabe grower wants from some space to grow. My own view is that there is room for full, half and quarter plots for all types of growers. I know that some of the old faithfuls on our site have moved from having two plots, to having one, to only cultivating a small part of one plot, and leaving the rest as mown grass, so it's not just 'new' gardeners that are looking for different sized plots.

            Just my tuppence.

            Comment

            • #7
              I'm on several alltoment FB groups and see both ends of the issue.

              Firstly there's the poor management of allotments that leads to plots being left for years without being tended. That needs sorting out promptly - using both existing allotment holders on site to put pressure on and those on the waiting list.

              Secondly there's people who think they want an allotment, are fully committted mentally to one, but don't have the time, energy or enthusiasm. It's all very well having reasons for not going on and doing things - but most of the time they are excuses.
              These people then fight to keep plots that they don't tend, visit or use in any way, because they have a romantic idea of being able to visit an allotment once a year (or less) and say they're an allotmenter.

              Cutting plots isn't the answer in most cases but does help those people who don't have enough time to tend a full plot. Things should be flexible though to allow people to take on more space when they can, and to reduce when they can't.

              However we have one quarter plot on our site - it's about 46m2. (Had oroginally put 90m2 but that was wrong!) It's very neat. But if every plot was quartered then potentially everyone would want their own shed and greenhouse. This would turn the allotment into a shanty town of buildings reducing actual growing in the ground. Add in that people want a little seating area, paths round and a composting area (even if they don't use it) then the amount of actual growing space reduces massively.

              I think if smaller plots are being forced on sites then the issue of tool storage and shared greenhouse space needs to be investigated to ensure they are growing spaces still.
              Last edited by alldigging; 02-10-2015, 02:08 PM.

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              • #8
                Nicely put alldigging A short while ago I had the pleasure of meeting Hazel at the hill & one thing that sticks out in my memory is the communal greenhouse, brilliant idea along with somewhere to bring on seedlings, etc the members get to chat in there with other plotholders that may not normally meet, making it a social centre as well
                He who smiles in the face of adversity,has already decided who to blame

                Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity

                Comment

                • #9
                  Thankful,y I gave a proper full sized plot on a site that is realistic in that there is an expectation that were productive but not strict about colour of sheds or the way we grow. There was a problem with unlet plots which seems to have been improved on with a new council clerk. Recently plots have been split in half but this has been at the request of the newbie so that's OK (I was told I could have all or half when I got mine but wanted the space to grow all my veggies). One of the problems I see with very small plots (inc quarters in this) is that they're not allotments by the dictionary definition, they're veggie plots where you can dabble. This might suit the individual better and that's great but it's a different thing and it would be a shame if the tradition of allotment self sufficiency were lost.

                  Oh and won't be commenting on Twitter as don't get it at all but each to their own there too.
                  Last edited by Alison; 02-10-2015, 09:30 AM.

                  Some of us live in the past, always talking about back then. Some of us live in the future, always planning what we are going to do. And, then there are those, who neither look behind or ahead, but just enjoy the moment of right now.

                  Which one are you and is it how you want to be?

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Good points, all.

                    I'm really torn on our site. If I'm realistic a half plot is all I can manage in the time I've got. I'm happy that I've kept on top of things and it hasn't 'got away with me'. But there's much more that I'd like to grow, and I'd really like to take on the empty other half of my plot.... but would that spell disaster?

                    *mutter grumble* decision making is so hard....

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      All the plots are my site are quarter plots, 2.5 rods. We are not allowed sheds but are allowed up to 8x6 greenhouses. I took on a second plot last year as I was struggling for space. There are a few of us with two plots and one plot holder with three. The site is relatively new, about 15 years old I think, and the plots were quarter plots from the outset. We still have people unable to cope with the modest size and share with someone else or give up! From chatting to fellow plot holders most are happy with the plot size. However I don't think just dividing up existing plots is the answer, but smaller plots suit some.
                      We have a committee who manage the site on behalf of the Parish Council. We keep an eye on plots and when plot holders aren't managing the secretary sends a "is everything ok" email which usually gets a response either way. If this softly, softly approach doesn't work then the Parish get involved to evict. In this way plots are generally well kept and untended plots don't linger for long.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by alldigging View Post
                        However we have one quarter plot on our site - it's about 90m2. It's very neat. But if every plot was quartered then potentially everyone would want their own shed and greenhouse. This would turn the allotment into a shanty town of buildings reducing actual growing in the ground. Add in that people want a little seating area, paths round and a composting area (even if they don't use it) then the amount of actual growing space reduces massively.

                        I think if smaller plots are being forced on sites then the issue of tool storage and shared greenhouse space needs to be investigated to ensure they are growing spaces still.
                        That would count as a half-plot on our site.

                        There are similar concerns about shantying our site by having smaller plots. I was in favour of 1/4s, but after all the feedback on a couple of forums I think they would be too much of a headache for our band of volunteers to administer.
                        http://mudandgluts.com - growing fruit and veg in suburbia

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sparrow100 View Post
                          That would count as a half-plot on our site.
                          Five rods/perch - approx. 125 square metres is a full plot here in Willesborough, and is the biggest you're allowed as a new allotment holder.
                          My plot is only 3.75

                          They divide up bigger plots as they become vacant, in order to reduce the waiting list.

                          If you are lucky, and have a plot that you manage well, very occasionally - when the bigger ones are divided up for reletting - it's possible to get another small piece on the same site. But I'm not holding my breath

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by sparrow100 View Post
                            That would count as a half-plot on our site.

                            There are similar concerns about shantying our site by having smaller plots. I was in favour of 1/4s, but after all the feedback on a couple of forums I think they would be too much of a headache for our band of volunteers to administer.
                            Actually I think I've got that area wrong.

                            I have! Just checked and he has 46m2 which is a quarter when our biggest plot is just a bit over 200m2.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              My 'half plot', from my own measurements, is approx 74 square metres... how does that measure up? About a third of a standard allotment plot?

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