Recommend my next apple tree?

[d000hg]

I guess digging up an old tree is also no small job if you want to get all the roots. Grafting is pretty amazing when you think about it.

[nickdub]

I've actually come across quite a lot of videos on Cleft and Bark grafting once I found out the terms and people say apples are very forgiving of grafting. It seems you're supposed to leave a branch though, I think this is to keep drawing sap. Seems likely to end up looking pretty ugly though. Might give it a try just for fun.

These are old techniques date back 100's of years, I came across them by reading old books on gardening and fruit growing. One thing that is obvious is that gardeners in the past were in less of a hurry than people generally are nowadays. In Victorian times say there were no dwarfing rootstocks being used and so an apple tree grown from a pip (pippin) could easily take 10 years before it fruited and any mature fruit tree would be 20 years old or more.

If you had apple rootstocks in your orchard grafting not only gave you control of the variety of apple, but actually meant relatively fast production for the period, say 5 years between setting the graft and having it fruit. As modern life has become faster paced, available time to do things seems to have shrunk - odd really.

[d000hg]

Personally I'd be a bit doubtful of successfully grafting into a stump - its certainly possible but as a first time project there is bound to be lots that can go wrong. In your shoes I'd try cutting the trunk down to say 1 metre high, then let the tree throw a load of new shoots which I've no doubt it would. In subsequent years those shoots could be grafted or budded. A bit slower than cleft grafting a stump but you still save the majority of the trunk and all the roots - you might expect a decent crop 4 years after the grafting as long as all goes well.

Happy to share some thoughts by the way - that's the best part of this forum for me.

Happy Gardening - Nick :-)

I've actually come across quite a lot of videos on Cleft and Bark grafting once I found out the terms and people say apples are very forgiving of grafting. It seems you're supposed to leave a branch though, I think this is to keep drawing sap. Seems likely to end up looking pretty ugly though. Might give it a try just for fun.

[Plot70]

If the old tree was grafted you will have two bits of trunk wood to experiment with as well as letting the tree sprout young wood.

[nickdub]

Personally I'd be a bit doubtful of successfully grafting into a stump - its certainly possible but as a first time project there is bound to be lots that can go wrong. In your shoes I'd try cutting the trunk down to say 1 metre high, then let the tree throw a load of new shoots which I've no doubt it would. In subsequent years those shoots could be grafted or budded. A bit slower than cleft grafting a stump but you still save the majority of the trunk and all the roots - you might expect a decent crop 4 years after the grafting as long as all goes well.

Happy to share some thoughts by the way - that's the best part of this forum for me.

Happy Gardening - Nick :-)

[d000hg]

Grafting is certainly possible as long as you can get the scion wood. Depending on the size of the tree you might need a stepladder to reach branches of the optimum size. U-tube is a good reference as people have put videos of all sorts of grafting and budding on there. I found wedge grafting to be the easiest on any moderately sized branch from pencil thickness up to about 1" diameter.

I'd go as far as to say that anyone who can rewire a plug has enough dexterity to be able to graft successfully - the other ingredients required are a bit of knowledge as to when and how + patience and persistence to acquire the manual skill.

Obviously a 15 years old is a major asset and the only way you can capitalise on that growing time its had is by grafting. Really apart from your time you have nothing to lose by trying it, as the cost is minimal and if you are worried about the grafts not taking just plant another young tree of the new variety you choose somewhere else in your garden, which you can transplant if the grafting fails and you decide to scrap one of your mature trees.


PS 30 or 40 foot high trees can be transplanted, its just not usually done because of the cost - something like a mini digger would be required in the case of moving your Bramleys I expect

PPS requests for scion wood have often been met on here through the kindness of vine members in the past

Very interesting, thanks. I'm familiar with grafting a branch and the way small trees are nearly always grafted but I had never heard of stump/trunk grafting. Looking online it seems you can literally fell the tree to ground level, get a branch of another tree, and bung it in. I need to find some more info online but this sounds a great idea and as you say what is there to lose - worst case I end up having to pull the stump out anyway.

I found someone online saying you can graft into a stump up to a few years after felling the tree... the root system stays alive for quite a long time?

[nickdub]

Grafting is certainly possible as long as you can get the scion wood. Depending on the size of the tree you might need a stepladder to reach branches of the optimum size. U-tube is a good reference as people have put videos of all sorts of grafting and budding on there. I found wedge grafting to be the easiest on any moderately sized branch from pencil thickness up to about 1" diameter.

I'd go as far as to say that anyone who can rewire a plug has enough dexterity to be able to graft successfully - the other ingredients required are a bit of knowledge as to when and how + patience and persistence to acquire the manual skill.

Obviously a 15 years old is a major asset and the only way you can capitalise on that growing time its had is by grafting. Really apart from your time you have nothing to lose by trying it, as the cost is minimal and if you are worried about the grafts not taking just plant another young tree of the new variety you choose somewhere else in your garden, which you can transplant if the grafting fails and you decide to scrap one of your mature trees.


PS 30 or 40 foot high trees can be transplanted, its just not usually done because of the cost - something like a mini digger would be required in the case of moving your Bramleys I expect

PPS requests for scion wood have often been met on here through the kindness of vine members in the past

[Leslie Simpson]

Sometimes you need to wait 5-6 years until the apple tree begins to bear fruit. We had several of these "sleeping beauties". The tree grows on its own, endures winter, but does not bear fruit. And they fed, and whatever they did. And if you only recently planted yours, then as for me, it is quite normal that there are no fruits yet.

[d000hg]

My Bramleys are well-established trees, not sure but could be 15-20 years old so I don't think they can be transplanted. In fact getting the stump out of the ground will be fun enough!

I hadn't thought about grafting but I'm not sure if that's feasible. Certainly there's a nice root system there.

[nickdub]

"A friend recently harvested their James Grieve and it looked nice; looking it up it seems like it could be a great option to "fill in the gaps" as a good solid all-rounder.

I was wondering about possibly removing TWO of my Bramleys and replacing one with a different cooking variety. Any suggestions?"

If you get too many Bramley apples I'd say give one of your trees to a friend and try a James Grieve instead (or graft one over). As mentioned James Grieves doubles as a cooking apple if well thinned - the only reason it's not grown more commercially is that the fruit bruises easily when ripe so it's tricky to get it on to shop shelves in good condition.

[d000hg]

I'd say you may be missing a late dessert apple, which is the sort you pick around now but then store and can still be eating next year - my choice for this would be Ashmead's Kernel though I don't know Winter gem, so that might do the same job. Another possible would be James Grieve which is an excellent early eater which you don't see in the shops these days, and which can be grown to cooking apple size if thinned enough.

I think my Winter Gem does alrgely match this late dessert idea although it's a bit of a novelty variety: https://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/110282...em-(D)/Details

A friend recently harvested their James Grieve and it looked nice; looking it up it seems like it could be a great option to "fill in the gaps" as a good solid all-rounder.

I was wondering about possibly removing TWO of my Bramleys and replacing one with a different cooking variety. Any suggestions?

[peanut]

Nicos I've had a red fleshed apple for a few years now, it's called Pixi Rosso and is fantastic. Lovely crisp, tangy, yet sweet flesh. Delicious as well as pretty. The blossom is a beautiful deep magenta kind of colour. Well worth having.

[ameno]

If you want a late variety, I can recommend Christmas Pippin. Easily the best apple I have ever tasted. Its a Cox-like apple, but I think it tastes even better than an actual Cox. It's also far better as a tree, as the tree is more vigorous and disease-resistant (Cox are infamous for being weak growers and being susceptible to every disease under the sun), crops better with larger fruit, and the fruit keep longer.
It's ready mid- to late-October, though, so depending on how cool your summers are it may not ripen in time.

I don't know much about apple trees but I keep thinking about getting a red fleshed variety.
There appear to be several on the market .
I like the novelty aspect.
As far as I am aware they have crab apple input to get the colouring so maybe that would make them more hardy for your area?

No idea what I'm talking about...but might be worth looking into?

I've never heard anything good about the red-fleshed varieties. They all apparently taste rather mediocre and don't crop all that well. A gimmick, really.

[burnie]

I had a James Grieve, which sadly succumbed to Scab and canker, as you are further south than me, you might be ok, it is a versatile cooker/eater, nice taste too.

[nickdub]

I'd say you may be missing a late dessert apple, which is the sort you pick around now but then store and can still be eating next year - my choice for this would be Ashmead's Kernel though I don't know Winter gem, so that might do the same job. Another possible would be James Grieve which is an excellent early eater which you don't see in the shops these days, and which can be grown to cooking apple size if thinned enough.