Grow Your Own Magazine

Hi,

I have resorted to spraying one or two 'things' with Derris liquid to get rid of caterpillars - and am now tempted to blast all the celery and parsnips.

We have a very healthy population of frogs though that often lurk among the latter.. would the Derris liquid harm them, and the ladybirds, come to that? How 'green' is it?

Thanks in advance,

Keith

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Derris is soon to become a banned chemilcal! It is now linked to Alkseimers disease (excuse the spelling, i've been using derris for years!)

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My Majesty made for him a garden anew in order
to present to him vegetables and all beautiful flowers.- Offerings of Thutmose III to Amon-Ra (1500 BCE)

Rotenone - the active ingredient obtained from the crushed root of the derris tree - has been linked to the progressive brain disorder Parkinson's disease, and a subsequent investigation by the Pesticide Safety Directive (PSD) has led to the decision to withdraw all derris-based sprays and powders.

Although no definitive date has been set for the removal of derris from the market, sources claim that products will be available until September 2009.

Among the products to be targeted are Liquid Derris and Derris Dust, but organic alternatives do already exist* in the shape of sprays containing fatty acids, plant oils and pyrethrums. Derris itself has been used in the amateur horticultural sector since the mid-19th Century.

* plus squishing with your fingers, barriers like fleece, enviromesh etc.

Derris, although an organic insecticide with the active ingredient of rotenone, is harmful to bees so apply in the evening after the bees have finished work for the day Derris & Bees

It also kills spiders, which are beneficial in the garden, even if you personally don't like them.

Derris is a poison, and it's non-selective. As well as killing the nasties, it also kills the goodies, like bees.

The problem is when amateurs pick up an "organic" product like Derris and think it's okay to splash around willy-nilly, because it's "organic" and somehow fluffy.

Derris has long been used to kill fish, so is obviously going to be harmful to any ponds in the vicinity of it's use. Glyphosate is also harmful to aquatic life, and it too gets sprayed around like it's going out of fashion

Factsheet - Rotenone

There is only one known death due to Derris, in a 3 year old child. The toxic dose isn't yet known (because they can't test it on real live humans). Critical Care | Full text | Fatality after deliberate ingestion of the pesticide rotenone: a case report

The Derris plant used to be commonly used by suicides in Papua New Guinea.

Nasty stuff to be spraying around if you're not careful.

We have inquisitive little children in our house, so I wouldn't keep any poison here ... it's just not worth the risk. I don't intend to sound preachy ~ that's just what I think. I couldn't forgive myself if a child OD'd on something I'd left lying around.

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~ What do I think of Western civilisation? I think it would be a very good idea ~ Gandhi

I don't use it, only one person on our little 12 plot site does. He's the one with the magnificent sprouts while the rest of us have bare stalks! However, I believe nature's all about balance. The little horrors will go off and pupate or whatever they do and the plants will start to grow again. We'll get a tatty crop but we'll have bees to pollinate our plants in future years - if other things don't get them.

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Earth laughs in flowers. Ralph Waldo Emerson

www.vegheaven.blogspot.com

Updated November 17th - The Big Dig

Yikes, I have that in my plot shed (un used) I thought it was a 'fluffy' product and not the nasty it turns out to be.
I must get rid of it!!!! my poor girls - what if they get to hear that I have THAT in my shed! What is the best way to dispose of it please?
Dont think I have ever known such a bad year for caterpillars though

Give it to Seabreeze!

we have a guy who sprays everything in sight - we call him Chemical Jim.
He refuses to use environmesh, as it "doesn't look nice".

His cabbages are even lacier than mine, even though he sprays them every ruddy week

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~ What do I think of Western civilisation? I think it would be a very good idea ~ Gandhi

Ha ah! Is it you with embroidery scissors?

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Earth laughs in flowers. Ralph Waldo Emerson

www.vegheaven.blogspot.com

Updated November 17th - The Big Dig

Embroidery scissors, hee hee

* goes off to find some pinking shears ~ that'll confuse the awld bugger

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~ What do I think of Western civilisation? I think it would be a very good idea ~ Gandhi

I picked up Derris once thinking it was fairly 'organic' but when I read all the warnings on the pack I put it down again as it sounded more like 'agent orange' & pretty lethal to lots of aquatic & insect life that I didn't want to harm. Bordeaux mixture is the same, harmful to aquatic & other wildlife & although approved for 'organic' use they say only use as a last resort.

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Into every life a little rain must fall.

Me either. I've netted, squished, scraped the eggs off, sprayed with jets of water and I've never seen so many caterpillars still surviving and munching my brassicas.

I'd like to know when the caterpillars finally go away for the winter! I've been out twice a day most days spraying the little devils with garlic fire spray and there's still loads of them around Feel as if I'm fighting a losing battle some days

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Always look on the bright side of life
View my blog - http://chooksandveggies.blogspot.com/ updated November 1st 2008

GULP!!!

I don't know if I'm glad I asked or not... ;-)

Thankfully it's virtually the only chemical I've ever used - and I've only just bought it! (honest)

If anyone knows the names of any real green alternative, please let me know here - quick!

Thanks to all,

Keith

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You need to use barriers (fleece, environmesh etc) to keep the butterflies off.

Then you will still need to check for caterpillars, cos some will get in.

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~ What do I think of Western civilisation? I think it would be a very good idea ~ Gandhi

Is bordeaux mixture being banned as well?

Not sure about it being banned but it's definitely frowned upon and I chose not to use.

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Some of us live in the past, always talking about back then. Some of us live in the future, always planning what we are going to do. And, then there are those, who neither look behind or ahead, but just enjoy the moment of right now.

Which one are you and is it how you want to be?

Whoops, I had avoided spaying or dusting with anything till catapillas started to eat my brocoli. Said organic on the tub.

Organic means 'not synthetic'
It doesn't mean 'not poisonous'

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~ What do I think of Western civilisation? I think it would be a very good idea ~ Gandhi

Hi
Might be worth planting a lot of nasturtiums around the plot? Although I planted a few three years ago and now don't have to bother, they regrow every year. I've found that although some butterflies do get through the netting on my brassicas, they mostly lay on the nasturtiums and the caterpillars eat that instead.
I did try giving some caterpillars to the hens but they turned up their beaks so as I don't want to commit mass murder have left the caterpillars to it on the nasturtiums.
Sue

I've got heaps of nasturtiums on my plot. They attracted the black fly and a very few caterpillars. Didn't make much overall difference though.

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Earth laughs in flowers. Ralph Waldo Emerson

www.vegheaven.blogspot.com

Updated November 17th - The Big Dig