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  • Why the secrecy?

    Wherever I try to find information about the parent plants of F1 tomatoes, there doesn't seem to be any available. With all the resources of the interweb, I'd have thought such info would be readily accessible.

  • #2
    I have this theory that if a seed producer acquired a new tomato and marked it as an F1 the sales would be greater as growers believe that an F1 is better
    Seed producers hate growers saving seed and over rate F1s
    I save my own seed from non F1s always pleased with the results
    Often wondering if its all a big con..... training new gardeners to buy over-priced seed every year

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    • #3
      What are F1's?

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      • #4
        F1 parentage is usually a commercial secret - it makes sense to keep it quiet or we'd be breeding those varieties ourselves and not buying them anymore.

        I buy F1s for some things that I don't save from, but increasingly my seedbox is full of heirloom veg.
        http://mudandgluts.com - growing fruit and veg in suburbia

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        • #5
          I've never grown F1 from seed before, but I was given some fruit from a ferline last year and decided to grow some this year. I think that £2.99 for 15 seeds is a bit much though. I'd only like to know the parentage so that I could save some seeds to do some F2 next year and have an idea of what they might throw back to. Normally, I only grow my own saved seed. Usually Gardeners Delight, Alicante, Tigrella, Moneymaker and Roma.

          As regards seed suppliers keeping it a secret, All the big names produce them. They can't have just made their own hybrids. To call them a certain variety, they must surely have the same parentage?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by brownfingers View Post
            As regards seed suppliers keeping it a secret, All the big names produce them. They can't have just made their own hybrids. To call them a certain variety, they must surely have the same parentage?
            Or there's one producer who sells seeds on to the various retailers. Maybe the producer has the "patent" for that F1?

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            • #7
              There are plant breeders and seed merchants. Sometimes they are the same and sometimes not. If a breeder develops a new variety they can license that variety to others which is how business works. The business of plant breeding is no different from any other kind of business. When you spend a lot of time and money on something it's nice to get a little bit back. Marketing something as F1 if it isn't would be fraud in just the same way as selling a fake Rolex as the real thing.

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              • #8
                Sorry, but if I spent years breeding a pair of pure parent lines which then, when crossed to give an F1, produced a plant with commercial advantage I'd not be telling anyone how I did it / enabling them to copy me without having to spend any money on all the research I did and all the ones I cross and grew only to find out that they were useless.

                I agree that marketing hype surrounds some varieties, and I only grow F1 where I have found an advantage. I also buy them in the end of season sales, so a packet costs me no more whether F1 or not ... although I might get fewer seeds in an F1 packet (not that I find I need more than one packet, for things like Tomatoes I like to grow several varieties and only half a dozen plants of each, so a pack of 12 seeds will usually last me for two years)

                I've seen lots of F1 varieties come and go ... surprising given the effort to produce one, for those I suspect its more Hype than Substance ... but things that are Club Root resistant are a boon for people with that disease, and I grow F1 for Sweetcorn and Winter Squash as they are bred for short UK summer seasons (and extra Sweetness in the case of Sweetcorn), [Greenhouse] Cucumbers which only have Female flowers, Parsnips that are canker resistant, and a few others.

                The price seems fairly immaterial to me in most instances. My Cucumber seed costs more than £1 each (assuming I don't buy it in the sale). I get what? 2 Cucumbers a week off the plant? If the seed cost me 1p each it wouldn't really make any difference to my crop production cost.

                I do save seed, but not for any vegetables - as I find that reliable seed is readily available, plus I want some F1s. OTOH Ornamentals are a different matter. Frequently far too little seed in a packet and priced too high. A packet of a dozen or two Salvia seeds is £2-£ (just looked up Oxford Blue £2.95 for 20 seeds). I grow at least 40 of those, same again for the lighter blue one, and lots of other ornamentals. I have a whole envelop of seed from last year's flowers, and I find it germinates better than the commercially bought seed.
                K's Garden blog the story of the creation of our garden

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                • #9
                  Because seed companies exist to make profits for shareholders (unless a not for profit organisation) not for gardeners.

                  If they told people how to create their developed F1 varieties then other companies or gardeners would grow their own.

                  Heritage varieties are having a resurgence so take advantage and save seed from those you like and can grow well in your garden.

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                  • #10
                    I still think we are being fooled
                    Sunglod is an F1 tomato and very tasty the seeds are very expensive
                    I save seed from Sungold grow them and still get Sungold toms 9 years in a row
                    Anyone else tried ?

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                    • #11
                      There are quite a few Tomato varieties that started out as F1 which have been successful re-sown in future seasons. perhaps the seed companies don't bother to check how the F2 etc. generations turn out?

                      My guess is that the genes they are breeding-in are Dominant and thus survive into subsequent generations.

                      This isn't true, in the main, for F1 seed for other things.
                      K's Garden blog the story of the creation of our garden

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by beeterforit View Post
                        I still think we are being fooled
                        Sunglod is an F1 tomato and very tasty the seeds are very expensive
                        I save seed from Sungold grow them and still get Sungold toms 9 years in a row
                        Anyone else tried ?
                        It's very possible that the genes that give the characteristics for sungold are dominant in their progeny giving for all intents and purposes a 'sungold F1' appearance to them, except you'll have F2, then F3 and so on.

                        It's worth a try but as an experiment when you're not reliant on getting certain characters such as shorter growing period or disease resistance, profligacy of crop, flavour etc.

                        I wouldn't be submitting the F2 etc seeds to the VSP for instance as they genetically are not F1s with the benefits of such.

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                        • #13
                          Snap!!!

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                          • #14
                            Last year I tried to baggie a few flowers and make my own F1. I am always on the look out for a new hybrid that will knock my socks off. Unfortunately as the commercial growers make their money this way it's unlikely we'll be told what the "secret" is.

                            Has anyone else had any home-grown hybrid success?

                            This year I have some Gardeners Delight crossed with Sunbaby. Only went in at the weekend so yet to germinate (unless they are sterile?).

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                            • #15
                              There seem to be plenty of hobbyists who specialist in breeding a specific species. I think the apple Discover was a chance find in someone's garden?

                              I haven't got the patience though ...
                              K's Garden blog the story of the creation of our garden

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