restarting a neglected plot: green manure or cardboard and poo?

**chris** · 10-10-2011, 05:31 AM

Hello, welcome to the forum!

It doesn't have to be horse muck.. you can use compost, for example. I'm not that experienced with green manure so can't help there.

If you update your profile to include your location (or at least let us know) we may be able to recommend a supplier of horse muck. I've just had a load delivered that's 10 years old. My whole site uses it and has no issues.. to give you an idea of cost for what I paid it's �10 for a load, and �5 for a half load (a load being enough to spread over an allotment apparently).

If you don't have a source of compost then it may be an expensive way, but as you mention you want to create beds if you mark them out then you can concentrate the compost/cardboard/whatever method you'd like to use in those areas.

You could also go down the lasagne route if you dig some beds out, or contain it some how.

If you've not already, I'd get started with a compost heap (you can get them working over winter, you need to be there to turn them and maintain the right mix though! - last winter my heap was steaming.. it was only in the thick snow we had that it pretty much stopped (couldn't be bothered in knee high snow

).

Clay is good though, just think of all the locked in nutrients - once you open it up it'll be great for you

**Two_Sheds** · 10-10-2011, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by salome2001 View Post

I plan to make beds for next years veg, but am trying to work out how best to improve the soil before then.

I wouldn't waste time improving the soil before you make raised beds: half of your work is likely to be on improving the soil of your paths which is wasted effort

What I did in the same situation:
- put card down where I wanted my beds: killing weeds | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
- bought & sited my raised beds
- dug out the paths and used that grass, upside down, to fill the beds
- then added more compost, newspaper etc to keep filling the beds

The paths worked well, hardly any new weeds have grown back on them (the soil is very compacted) and the beds are going well too

**salome2001** · 10-10-2011, 10:48 PM

thanks for your replies, both very helpful. I have just today measured up the site for planning beds.

As regards turning the dug out path grass over, we have a problem in that the roots are thickly enmeshed in deteriorating black plastic. The grass is sitting in a heap currently awaiting the 5th of November. I might try stripping some of the nonrooted/plasticked growth off and digging it back in (I confess I did spray everything with glyphosate but after a few weeks it should be fine to dig in, right? I know that's a heinous nonorganic thing to do but we had to try to get rid of a shedload of nettles as well. We will go organic once the plot is cleared, promise!)

We also have a problem with homemade compost as we moved to out current house in August and although our bin is full of kitchen waste/ windfall apples/ card and paper it's still a long way off compost.

Chris, I'll try to work out how to edit my profile as you suggest.

**chris** · 11-10-2011, 06:36 AM

Thanks - its not required but helps to tailor information to you if you have a query without having to ask all the time

Keep turning the compost, making sure that the balance is right (too wet - add some browns, to dry - water/greens) - It'll be slower thist ime of the year, but last year in November I had a batch ready from filling it in mid september. I regularlly watered it with diluted urine too.. I swear by wee now

**hippychick253** · 11-10-2011, 09:10 AM

Yourplot sounds similar to mine, dense, clay soil you could make pots out of!
I had to dig all the brambles and nettles out by their roots in the end, as 3 applications of a systemic weed killer didn't touch them, and cost me a small fortune....but 2 years on, the weeds are minimal, so well worth the effort.

I use local horse manure, as we have a local stables where the poo is free and you make a donation to their disabled riding project....you do have to bag it up and take it away youself. But the results have been great.

**salome2001** · 11-10-2011, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by chrismarks View Post

Thanks - its not required but helps to tailor information to you if you have a query without having to ask all the time

I regularlly watered it with diluted urine too.. I swear by wee now

I saw "compost activator" in the garden centre today... it didn't list the active ingredient/s and I did wonder if it was dried wee!!!

**chris** · 11-10-2011, 01:00 PM

Just wee in it, it's free.. grass clippings - anything high in nitrogen!

**shona_b** · 11-10-2011, 03:13 PM

we've been "offered" a couple of unused beds in the neighbouring allotment - they just aren't able to keep on top of it and we'd love a bit more space for larger plants. Its been left for a few months so its just covered in knee high grass. I tried to dig over and weed but its backbreaking - going to snaffle some cardboard from a local retailer and cover over the beds as suggested here. One bed we might just use as an area to get our manure delivered to to begn with - that should help as well! After we've put the cardboard down can we just add a layer of the manure to weight it down and leave it for a while to supress the grass underneath and add more soil? not sure if the cardboard has to be removed at some point or does it just rot down (I guess by interpreting the lasagne method you just leave it be?) Anything has got to be better than trying to dig it over.....

**rustylady** · 11-10-2011, 03:50 PM

Cardboard will eventually rot down, specially if covered with a layer of soil or manure.

**Speed Gardener** · 11-10-2011, 03:51 PM

You'll find the cardboard will rot away to nothing surprisingly quickly, especially if you get plenty of rain. I'm not sure about the ability of cardboard to kill perennial weeds like bindweed or couch grass - I have both in my fruit cage and despite using a double thickness of cardboard and six inches of manure, with the exceptionally warm spring the bindweed was through and all over my currants by mid may. I would say that this year's been the worst year for bindweed in the 15 years or so I've had my plots, it came up everywhere, in places it had never been.

**Two_Sheds** · 11-10-2011, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by shona_b View Post

its just covered in knee high grass....going to snaffle some cardboard

Strim or shear the grass down to ground level or near-as-you-can before you put the card down. Weight it down with clods of soil, lumps of grass, or anything really

**Thelma Sanders** · 11-10-2011, 06:12 PM

i covered my unwanted grass paths with black plasic in the spring and when I lifted it last week all the ordinary grass was dead and like compost, and it was very easy to get out the couch grass roots.
Then made beds and added manure to clear soil.
The ones I started with cardboard and no digging, were difficult cos the couch grew through everything

**hippychick253** · 12-10-2011, 02:46 PM

Bind weed survived in my veggie beds, despite laying down cardboard, we then tried thick old carpet, then thick black polythene sheets and finally in desperation 3 treatments of systemic weed killer...still the pesky stuff grew. I eventually gave in and dug out as much as I could, and this summer it was much less prolific, so well worth the effort of digging it out.

**shona_b** · 12-10-2011, 04:25 PM

Many thanks for the advice all - I'll be making a start on Saturday! The bindweed han't reached these beds so its just grass and the odd dandelion. I have been painstakingly pulling up the bindweed that grows around the compost bins - its a weirdly rewarding task following the roots and pulling up as much as possible. I'll borrow a strimmer for the grass and then cover in card and manure (with the grass cuttings too!)

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