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Hallo
Is it better to bake or use a bread maker? My dad swears by his bread maker but as we have a really nice stove would like to do it the traditional way. If anyone has advice/recipes that would be great!
Thank u, Nessie

Problem with a bread maker is that you get that stupid whisk/blender thing stuck in the bottom of the loaf. One good compromise is to use the bread maker to mix the dough up and then place it in a traditional tin and bake it in the oven.

Shirls knows more than I do about this as she often makes our bread. Dunno if it's any cheaper than buying the stuff, but at least you know what ingredients go into it!

Ever tried Dutch sugar bread (suiker brood)? Yummmmmmmmmm.....

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Hi
I do as Madmax says; use the BM to knead and then pop it out, let it rise and bake it in the oven.

Current recipe:
12oz wholemeal bread flour
4oz white bread flour
1 teaspoon each dried yeast, sugar and salt
1 tablespoon of veg oil [olive oil makes the bread more panini-ish, if you get my drift]
half a pint of water

Set to dough and use the BM to knead this. The last 1/2 hour of my BM on this setting is just letting it rise; so I take it out when I can, shape it and leave to rise.

Then cook on 200 for about 20 mins.

The last 2 loaves i have added a vit c tablet crushed up, and the bread is fab. Just adds that extra something. Acts as improver [read it somewhere, tried it, love it].

If really pushed for time, I do the full BM thing; but don't like the hole in the bottom; nor the shape.

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Jerry: Hello Newman...

my blog - updated 14th March - The Bean Frame http://linearlegume.blogspot.com/

Heritage Seed Library: http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/hsl/index.php

Founder member of the Binley Knows Best Club - Feb 2010.

SAVE 6 MUSIC - have your say here....https://consultations.external.bbc.c...n/consult_view

Yep that is a pain in the bum although you can get them now where the paddles retract during the baking part which resolves this problem. I think morphy richards does one like this at quite reasonable price.

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Imagination is everything, it is a preview of what is to become.

i enjoy making bread by hand. i've tried breadmakers and they are really good because they save time and still produce tasty homemade bread, but i always feel a little removed from the process!
i think if you have the time and inclination, there is nothing like feeling the warm dough under your hands as you knead it. bread is such an important and symbolic food anyway, i always feel there is something respectful and satisfying about making it from scratch using your own time and stamina.
of course, practically i wouldn't know whether the results are better. except that once you start trying out different recipes, i feel perhaps you have more control over the process - you can decide for yourself by the texture of the dough how long you need to knead for, and how long to let it rise for.
plus kneading is good for building up those arm muscles

That's great thank u!
Well, I don't have my own breadmaker yet, so will have a go by hand and see how I get on with the recipe from zazen999... I can almost smell it already!

I agree with red admiral - breadmakers are ok but the product is a totally different animal to hand made bread! You really cant beat doing the whole process yourself - very fundamentally satisfying

My BM was a freebie; and I do have problems kneading my bread due to elbow injury [can pull stuff ok, but pushing is a different matter], long term injury - will never get better so the BM is my saviour. I have to say I did try kneading bread for ages before I got the BM; much pain ensued and whilst I don' t mind suffering for my art...if there's an easier way then I'll take it.

Having said that; if this BM goes kaput then I'll be buying the Panasonic one; 253 I think the number is. There's loads of posts about the wonderous BM on the MSE forums; the first slice of a home baked crusty bread is just a natural wonder of the world [IMHO].

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Newman: Hello Jerry
Jerry: Hello Newman...

my blog - updated 14th March - The Bean Frame http://linearlegume.blogspot.com/

Heritage Seed Library: http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/hsl/index.php

Founder member of the Binley Knows Best Club - Feb 2010.

SAVE 6 MUSIC - have your say here....https://consultations.external.bbc.c...n/consult_view

I have the Panasonic and it is fab - although the blade leaves it's mark in the bottom of the bread, I've never had any problems turning the loaf out whilst leaving the blade in the tin. Personally , if I didn't work full time, I'd probably make it by hand but seeing as I'm short on time when I'm in the house, I like the fact that I woke up this morning to the smell of freshly made bread and am now eating it as sandwiches on the day it was made - believe me I wouldn't have been willing to get up early enough to have done that by hand!!!!!! Started making my own as most of the supermarket stuff is plastic rubbish and I can't get to a decent bakery often enough. This way I know exactly what's in my bread and that is worth the price of the maker.

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Some of us live in the past, always talking about back then. Some of us live in the future, always planning what we are going to do. And, then there are those, who neither look behind or ahead, but just enjoy the moment of right now.

Which one are you and is it how you want to be?

I suppose cost wise there is precious lillte in it - one does have to buy the flour etc after all...

But the fun, the smell and the taste..... can't be beat.

I have an excellent cibatta recipe - takes a day and a half!

Terry

Can we blagg it from you?

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Big silver bird, come land low and slow
Cut your engines, cool your wings,
You've taken me home...

www.honeyjukes.co.uk

I used to make it by hand when the kids were little, then technology caught up and bread makers became available just at a time when I didn't really need one any longer. I bought one anyway and love it, I'm attempting to cut back on my appliances and I'm not replacing anything which is unnecessary, but I'm afraid I can't live without my bread-machine.

I had a panasonic before we moved - it is in storage now and I MISS IT!!!! (along with my sewing machine...) They are the best, get the one which automatically drops in the raisins/nuts etc when it is time.
I can't wait to get it back when we have a proper electricity supply.

That's the one I've got but have only used the auto thing once or twice as prefer basic wholemeal loaves, for me I wish I'd bought the model below that's the same but without that feature.

__________________

Some of us live in the past, always talking about back then. Some of us live in the future, always planning what we are going to do. And, then there are those, who neither look behind or ahead, but just enjoy the moment of right now.

Which one are you and is it how you want to be?

I have been experimenting with my bread maker and have found that

400g white strong flour
230 ml water
1 teaspoon salt
2 tablespoons olive oil
1 sachet yeast

in whatever order your machine instructions say....a nice loaf and good for pizza bases.

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Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful or believe to be beautiful..William Morris

I bought a panasonic bread maker 4 years ago and it is incredible. When my children were little I used to make my own bread, using a large bowl (a washing up bowl is ideal, but use only for this purpose). I used to make 6 loaves at a time and freeze them. However I have found that the bread maker bread does not freeze too well.

Given a choice I would continue to use the machine, making bread is very hard work and time consuming with all the proofing you need to do.

I hope this is of use to you

I found a bread maker useful for mixing and proving but preferred it baked in the oven. Now the bread maker has stopped working I mix the bread in my kenwood chef and have found the results much better. Time wise it doesn't take as long to mix prove and bake which is an advantage.

I would also be interested in the recipe for cibatta bread, only tried it once and it turned out like a pizza base

I use 200g white / 200g wholemeal, 1 teaspoon of salt, 1 teaspoon of yeast, 2 teaspoons of sugar, 1 tablespoon of olive oil, 1 tablespoon of milk powder and 1 think about 230ml of water also. Not quite sure how the milk powder bit works but the bread does seem to keep for longer.

__________________

Some of us live in the past, always talking about back then. Some of us live in the future, always planning what we are going to do. And, then there are those, who neither look behind or ahead, but just enjoy the moment of right now.

Which one are you and is it how you want to be?

I use the dough hook on my Kenwood chef it takes out all the boring kneading bits.

My scales are old shop lbs weight ones so for me its :-
1oz fresh yeast in
30 oz hand hot water
then add 3lb bread flour,
1oz white fat/or oil,
and nearly a tablespoon salt.

Give it 3 mins in the Kenwood then put it somewhere to prove for a hour-ish then its back in the Kenwood for 2 more mins.
Shape into either 26, 3oz rolls or 5 loaves (I've got some old Hovis bread tins) and leave for a second proving of about 30 mins.

Then bake until the bread sounds hollow when tapped.

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Bren

Supporter of the Binley Knows Best Club

Thanks for all the fab advice. Have just got my first ever dough in the boiler cupboard for a while before cooking it. I used the zazen999 recipe and whigger is going to try one of the others. I am not sure I kneaded it for long enough but my arms were aching and it certainly looks like bread!
Once I have got the hang of it I am going to try putting all sorts of stuff in. Pine nuts and cider are 2 of my favourite things so that could be a possibility!

The best time to make bread by hand is when you are in a really bad mood - then you bash the living daylights out of it and get a super loaf

Sadly I am no longer able to knead dough in the way required so as Madmax says, I usually make the dough in the machine and then shape and bake however I fancy. Another superb use for the machine is to make dough for doughnuts - anyone want the recipe?

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Happy Gardening,
Shirley

Can you help a friend raise money for British Heart Foundation please. He is climbing Machu Pichu later in the year and needs to make all the dosh he can for a good cause. www.justgiving.com/simonquinn2010

http://www.honeyjukes.co.uk

I'm surprised she hasn't posted here yet but my friend kethry makes the loaves by hand, using i think 3/4 wholemeal and 1/4 white flour, and plenty of seeds, the loaves are deelish and i think she said last time they work out about 40p a loaf? which is considerably cheaper than the equivalent in the supermarket.

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Oh yes, when I take the dough out of the machine, I knead in seeds - poppy, sunflower and linseed usually. That is part of the shaping for the tin then it rises in the tin and gets baked in the oven - if it wasn't so late I would go and put a loaf to go now - all this reading of bread is making me hungry for some nice and warm from the oven - droooooooool Homer Simpson styleee!

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Happy Gardening,
Shirley

Can you help a friend raise money for British Heart Foundation please. He is climbing Machu Pichu later in the year and needs to make all the dosh he can for a good cause. www.justgiving.com/simonquinn2010

http://www.honeyjukes.co.uk

I can't wait to try ours... is about to go in the oven. Have got some cheese, tomatoes and fresh basil (sadly not home-grown) to go with it. Would love the doughnut recipe please!

1 1/4 (one and a quarter) cups milk
1 beaten egg
1/4 cup butter
1/4 cup sugar
1tsp salt (don't leave it out!)
3 1/2 (three and a half) cups white flour
1 1/2 (one and a half) teaspoons dry yeast

use dough setting

Measure ingredients into the pan in the order relevant to your machine

select dough setting

start

when cycle finished roll dough to 1/2 inch thick

cut out into 2 inch rounds and if desired find another cutter to cut 'holes'

leave to rise for 30 mins or so

deep fry at 190'c - turn when they rise to the surface - fry till brown both sides and then toss in sugar if desired or dry on kitchen paper. if you make them without holes, leave to cool then inject with raspberry or strawberry jam (or preferred home-made conserve)


NOTE - I suppose you could make the dough by hand but it would need a lot of bashing to get the lightness you want for doughnuts. the dough can be frozen after cutting out and before rising - open freeze then store in bags. defrost then leave to rise then deep fry.

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Happy Gardening,
Shirley

Can you help a friend raise money for British Heart Foundation please. He is climbing Machu Pichu later in the year and needs to make all the dosh he can for a good cause. www.justgiving.com/simonquinn2010

http://www.honeyjukes.co.uk

Hi
How is the bread Nessie - did the recipe work for you???

Will be making doughnuts for the family gathering on Easter Sunday - how timely!!!

__________________
Newman: Hello Jerry
Jerry: Hello Newman...

my blog - updated 14th March - The Bean Frame http://linearlegume.blogspot.com/

Heritage Seed Library: http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/hsl/index.php

Founder member of the Binley Knows Best Club - Feb 2010.

SAVE 6 MUSIC - have your say here....https://consultations.external.bbc.c...n/consult_view

I have taken a photo of it which I will try and put up tomorrow! I was so proud that I cooked something edible. Even found some sesame seeds in cupboard which I rolled it in for extra authenticity! Was really nice and excellent recipe except I spilt a bit too much oil in, and was so excited I didn't cook it for quite long enough so a bit stodgy. Am hooked though! We have eaten half of it already warm and the chief taster (14 year old staffie dog) likes it too. THANKS EVERYONE! Whigger is doing his loaf now (the same but I expect his will be better than mine - typical )

Just thought i'd add a link to the BBC Get Cooking pages which has a video of Lesley Waters making a white plait bread and Focaccia - an italian bread with rosemary. Very useful to watch.

This bread making post has been very interesting, I think I may even give it ago myself as a beginner cook.

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I suppose it would help if I added the link I spoke of (doh! groan) BBC - Food - Get Cooking Click on lesley walters and the recipes scroll on the screen.

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How did Whigger's loaf turn out?

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Happy Gardening,
Shirley

Can you help a friend raise money for British Heart Foundation please. He is climbing Machu Pichu later in the year and needs to make all the dosh he can for a good cause. www.justgiving.com/simonquinn2010

http://www.honeyjukes.co.uk

Well both of our loaves of yesterday were ok but heavy. Turns out that the yeast we were using likes proving for an hour and a half... Whigger made a white loaf this evening doing the longer prove time and it's perfect! Only trouble with all this bread making and tasting is that I'm gonna be the size of a house if I'm not careful!

I resemble that remark!

Nessie I use fresh yeast and if its not as fresh as it should be the dough takes longer to prove than usual. So long as it more or less doubles in size you should be OK next time.

Thanks 'todayIwillbemostly' for the Focaccia bread link off to watch it now.

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Bren

Supporter of the Binley Knows Best Club

I love my panasonic machine & use it all the time, I do cheat & use the Wrights packet mixes for speed they make a great loaf in 2 hrs but it only takes the kids 20 mins to eat it

I did make some hot cross buns today in the kenwood & they are fine but took a long time to rise, me thinks the kitchen was too cold

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Lets teach kids to cook.

Having finally dug out the book......

From 'Bread Machine' by Jennie Shapter

Ciabatta

For the Biga (Sour dough starter)
200ml/7floz water
175g/6oz unbleached white bread flour
2.5ml/ 1/2 tsp easy blend dried yeast

For the Ciabatta Dough
200ml/7 floz water
30ml/2tbsp Milk
30ml/2tbsp olive oil
325g/11 1/2 oz unbleached white bread flour
7.5ml/ 1 1/2 tsp salt
2.5ml/ 1/2 tsp granulated sugar
1.5ml/ 1/4tsp easy blend dried yeast

Put the ingredients for the biga into the bread pan in the order advised by your machine, mix for 5 minutes on dough setting then switch off. Leave the biga in the bread machine or place in a large mixing bowl covered with lightly oiled clear film, overnight or for at least 12 hours, until the dough has risen and is just starting to colapse.

Return the biga to the pan if necessary. Add water, milk and oil for the ciabatta dough. sprinkle over the flour add the salt and sugar in seperate corners place the yeast in an indent in the middle of the flour.

Mix on a basic dough setting removing after the mixing and BEFORE the proving! Transfer dough to a bowl and cover with oiled film. Leave to rise for about an hour until the dough has tripled in size. Sprinkle two baking sheets with flour. Using a dough scrapper or spoon divide the dough into two portions. Carefully tip one portion of the dough onto one of the prepared sheets, trying to avoid knocking the air out! Using well floured hands shape the dough - carefully - into a rectangular loaf (slipper) about 2.5cm/1" thick, pulling and stretching as necessary.

Repeat with remaining piece of dough.

Sprinkle both loaves with flour. Leave them, uncovered, in a warm place for about 20-30 mins. The dough will spread and rise. Preheat the oven to 220 deg C/ 425 deg F/ gas 7.
Bake the ciabatta for 25-30 mins or until both loaves have risen, are light golden in colour and sound hollow when tapped on the base.

Ok.....

For myself I use semolina flour for dusting the baking sheets and the loaves - I find this gives a more authentic crust. Be careful to use large baking sheets for the dough - it really does spread! Oh yes... don't cook while on a diet!

Terry