Grow Your Own Magazine

Thank you Jan. I think you did a great job of summing up just about everything said here.

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From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

I agree with most of whats being said on here...excellent topic.

One thing, comparisons with today's society with what you may have known when you were little are not practical. We will never go backwards, only forwards, unfortunatley we as a country have no clear direction.

If you can answer the question, what drives consumerism, consumers or marketeers? you can make some serious money, which of course you would give to charity!

In days gone by some people that worked for large stores, (supermarkets effectivly) used to get their wages paid into a firms account and then simply have purchases debited against this account. They never actually saw hard cash. The store saw to all their needs! How far away are we from this, albeit slightly simplistic scenario.
In fact instead of having a giro cheque paid into the post office why dont the government just pay it to the local supermarket. Using government guidelines the supermarket could just issue a weeks shopping, making sure fresh meat, fruit, veg etc were supplied to the family.

How many people would just shrug and say 'What can I do?' They feel hopeless and divided, nothing they try has any effect. Did the fuel protest work? - Petrol is about the same price. Do petitions work? 1.8 million against road tolls is not enough. Offered a referendum on Europe? No chance Did you want to pay for the Olympics? and on and on and on.....

When is enough, enough?

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Geordie

Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure

Dear Fellow Ranters,

Fascinating reading, but I can't help feeling a little levity is now called for.

I propose we form a new political force in the land with the following manifesto pledges;

1. We will set up The Department for Turning the Clock Back (DFTCB) which will be charged with the task of making (at trowel point if necessary) everyone sit down to organic meat and two veg with their children at 6pm every evening and engage in polite analysis of the day's events and then listen to the Archers. This initiative will be taken because it will be good for people.

2. We will confiscate every 2nd TESCO store in the land, demolish it and turn the land into allotments within which the Plebs will be encouraged to attend classes on growing Jerusalem Artichokes and the like. Previous TESCO Clubcard holders will get their first two classes for the price of one.

3. On the full moon, unless the DFTCB decides otherwise, only Farmer's Markets will be allowed to sell food. Anyone worrying about the travel involved will be deemed to be deserving of going hungry (anyway they should have stocked up the day before). Anyone wanting to be identified as a Farmer will be required to wear tweeds, carry a shotgun and to shoot any baseball cap wearing townies on sight (after all they are only there to nick your venison sausages).

4. As DTCB research has proven, the nation was never healthier then during rationing. Therefore a new voucher system for food provision will be devised as it will be most advantageousto plunge the nation back into the dark ages. In fact it may be necessary to reinstigate the feudal system of peasantry and lordship - after all who ever heard of anyone going hungry in the middle ages?

5. The following will be banned. Anything made of peat. Anything that has travelled more than from next door. Anything that cannot be composted. Anything that smells better than it tastes, or feels better than it sounds, whichever is the lesser.

6. Once a year everyone of reasonable age will be required to face the rising sun, close their eyes and meditate deeply on the form of Charlie Dimmock, or Bob Flowerdew, according to their bent.

7. We will initiate a far reaching review of supermarket food dominance involving a national consultation, some glossy adverts in newspapers no one reads and a two minute slot on World Service Radio at 3:17am on a rainy Tuesday in November. After listening to the voice of the people we will then do exactly as we see fit.

8. Every child weighing slightly more than is absolutely normal (3 stone and one groat (boys), 3 groats (girls)) will be suject to an ASBO (Anti-Social Ballooning Order) and required to eat nothing but green things until they see the error of their ways (NB dipping things like chips in edible green substances and related activities will be severely frowned upon).

9. On the 29th of Februrary sweets, saturated fats and everything lovely will be allowed for a few minutes so long as no one admits to liking it.

10. People renting allotments, being the highest forms of human evolution, will be granted grazing rights on the central reservation of their nearest dual carriage way but must not eat the crocuses.

11. A commission will be established to sort out, ONCE AND FOR ALL, whether chitting potatoes works or not. Monty Don will not be invited to attend the Commission, for obvious reasons; instead he will offer sartorial advice to anyone daring to wear a track suit (unless they are an Olympic standard athlete).

You know it makes sense.

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it's written in the wind that we're two, carved out in the sand that we're real,
it's lit up in the stars that we're true, we're destined in the sky to be glad
Paul Weller
http://johntygreentoes.blogspot.com/

Alright, alright, JG, you do have a point - the majority of the posts have been made, by the very nature of this forum, by upstanding middle class citizens who have enlightened attitudes to health and nutrition, and not everyone is fortunate enough to be in the position that most of us are in.

That doesn't take away every element of choice from those who aren't in our smug position - although it's extremely tough to break out of the poverty trap, it's extremely tough to bring your kids up on a difficult estate (especially if your on your own), you do still have a certain amount of choice over how you live your life and how you feed yourself/family.

I still think that there is a strong educational message - it's not so much that people can't afford to eat well (veg can be easy and quick and cheap to grow) it's that they don't know how to eat well, though not being taught by their own parents, or domestic science at school, or whatever.

And the attitude of 'gosh - homemade soup, that's posh' with the implication that the soup maker clearly has so much time on their hands that they can make 'proper meals' is something that you would have thought that all those cookery programs would have dispelled by now, but there you go.

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Hazel
www.hazelandjanesallotment.blogspot.com
update Sun 30/11/2008......Indoor Allotmenteering too!.....

Has anyone got a good recipe for wild quail soup with saffron and white truffles? Not that I'm posh or anything.

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it's written in the wind that we're two, carved out in the sand that we're real,
it's lit up in the stars that we're true, we're destined in the sky to be glad
Paul Weller
http://johntygreentoes.blogspot.com/

I think that, putting aside the whole "class" issue, the above is probably one of the biggest factors in the whole matter.

If no-one has taught the parents, how can they pass it on?

My FIL firmly believes that he can't afford to eat healthily and can only afford to buy frozen chips/pies/burgers etc. at places like Iceland. Even if I go and show him what to do, it won't work, as it is so ingrained in him that fresh food is expensive, complicated and time-consuming, and that it is easier to put things in the microwave or in the oven and leave them until they're done. I know I can't change his mind - believe me, I've tried!

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"Its not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you" - Bruce Wayne

I once gave my sister-in-law home grown runner beans. Her reply 'how lovely but what do I do with them?'

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Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful or believe to be beautiful..William Morris

I tried to show FIL how to make a chicken and vegetable casserole (no packet sauces or anything). He said it took too long to chop/peel everything and to cook it...

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"Its not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you" - Bruce Wayne

I like to catch the bird at dawn (takes so much sweeter having rested overnight -don't you just think??)
White truffles after a full moon
And yellow crocus...only the best!!

Oh and a dash of Chateau Rothschild 1923....
And it must be cooked on an AGA......

Great thread, but I fear no easy answers to this. For what it's worth I have a few observations (not answers!)

The pace of life is just so fast these days, with pressures to consume/achieve/not miss out on anything, already beginning at primary school age. I have to admit that despite growing our own food and getting an organic box, the effort to do all that is required on a day to day life basis makes 'fast food' an easy option on occasions when you just don't have the mental energy to make a decision about what to eat. When you are on a low income, I would think that these day to day pressures are so much greater especially if you don't have a clue about how to begin preparing and cooking food. A burger in the hand or packet of chips in the fryer is just one less thing to think about.

Maybe we have missed out on helping this generation of parents. It's not too late for the next though; education could be the key and it doesn't have to be only at school. I've heard there are some schemes for community gardens to help those on a low income learn to grow, cook and eat their food together in a community atmosphere to help save money. I'd imagine they are few and far between, but maybe ideas like this could get more government support. I'd say these would be great projects for anyone whatever income level, to build and nurture local communities and stop so many people feeling isolated.

Respecting the food we produce and eat could mean less greed, less waste and more enjoyment. My seven year old daughter is far more interested in trying things she's been involved with growing and cooking, and the achievement of growing a crop builds self respect too which can only be a positive. France has a thing or two to teach us on the subject of respect for the mealtime experience and food quality, and I can also recommend a great book called The More with Less Cookbook by Doris Janzen Longacre which is so much more than a cookbook although it easily demonstrates that home cooked nutritious food can be quick and even 'cheaper than chips' - with a little know how.

My mother grew up in post war Germany where there was quite a lot of deprivation, and she learned first hand how to produce nutritious and filling meals on almost no money. I'm not suggesting hers was a great learning experience, just that good food does not have to be expensive if you have a few skills.

The Dig for Victory campaign was successful in building a generation of food producers, maybe we need it to be re-instated!

In my experience, cheap food often doesn't fill you up so you end up having to buy twice as much....

Like I said, no answers, just my two'pence worth.

Thanks for humouring me. I just get going when people take a stereotypical line on any group of people - fresh soup eating types or can opening types. We are all God's reatures etc etc etc...

Choice, now there's an interesting concept. Of course we are all ultimately responsibly for our actions, reactions and destinies. But if marketing didn't work then people wouldn't employ marketing consultants. So the question becomes...

...can demand be created through successful advertising? If the answer is yes then where does that leave the concept of pure choice?

I can't choose freely unless Im am aware of the options and I can't be aware of the options unless someone advertises them to me.

I feel that the negative pressure of easy choice easily outweighs the positive pressure of education, Jamie Oliver, health campaigns and the rest. And so I would be in favour of regulating easy choice in much the same way that the government has regulated cigarette advertising - or do we really want to return to a world where children are sold cigarettes?

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it's written in the wind that we're two, carved out in the sand that we're real,
it's lit up in the stars that we're true, we're destined in the sky to be glad
Paul Weller
http://johntygreentoes.blogspot.com/

I wouldn't necessarily say that we have moved totally from a world where children are sold cigarettes - go down any park and you'll see what I mean. However, point taken. The thing with smoking is though that over time most people have been educated to a point where they find smoking unacceptable (no critisism meant to smokers but then again no apology either!), laws against tobacco advertising have no doubt had an influence but the main reason people do (or don't do) something is because it is acceptable to them and the thing that they do. Smoking is now seens in a lot of circles as a dirty, unhealthy habit rather than glamorous - this sort of make over needs to be done on food which brings us back to education with a back up and supportive legal (taxation or whatever) framework.

PS I know I'm over simplifying but am just trying to make a point.

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Some of us live in the past, always talking about back then. Some of us live in the future, always planning what we are going to do. And, then there are those, who neither look behind or ahead, but just enjoy the moment of right now.

Which one are you and is it how you want to be?

This is a fantastic thread, and has caused very wide discussion.

I could answer to quite a lot of the comments, but here goes a few:

Alison - I don't think a 60 mile round trip to the Derbyshire Peak District is too far to go to buy locally (Derbyshire Peak) accredited food. We live in a very rural area. The nearest shopping towns are between four and ten miles away, and provide very little choice. The best is Ashbourne. Compared with the thousands of airmiles that some food has travelled, 30 miles isn't bad!!

I think the rot set in when children's (NOT KID'S) school meals started to introduce 'choice'. In the late 1940's/early 50's when I started school, you had the take it or leave it menu. With rationing, the 'leave it' was not an option either!! You ate it. If you give a child choice (think back to when you were a child) the unhealthiest will be the favourite.

Organic - I'm a bit sceptical on this. Produced in the UK, fair enough. But when it has come from thousands of miles away - no way. Who is controlling the production to organic standards??? Would never buy 'foreign' organic foodstuffs.

On a lighter side:

Jan - I have heard of people who have 'show kitchens' - to look rather than cook. I'm psyching myself up to clean the cooker. Ours is a working kitchen.

Geordie - you talk about people being paid in kind, rather than cash. I think that under the Truck Acts that would have been illegal.

JohntyGT the groat was a coin to the value of four d pence as opposed to p pence, not a measure of height.

Sorry to be a smart-ass

valmarg

I'm watching Question Time and it's possibly got a bearing on our rantings.

Q Should McDonald's be banned as Prince Charles suggests?

A (Peter Hain). Definitely not, but he has a good point (make your mind up Peter)

A (Christina Odone) Obesity is becoming a huge problem (!!!!!!!!!!! stating the obvious)

A (Ming Campbell) we shouldn't ban anything (please!!!!!!)

A (Audience) if obese children should be taken into care what about anorexic children?

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it's written in the wind that we're two, carved out in the sand that we're real,
it's lit up in the stars that we're true, we're destined in the sky to be glad
Paul Weller
http://johntygreentoes.blogspot.com/

I know that i am over-simplifying things but, if every mother does her best to show her children how to cook healthy meals it will be one step in the right direction.
As someone has mentioned school meals, I have always wondered are school meals served instead of children taking a packed lunch to school.
In this country we have never ever had school meals, but the debate still goes on as to what is a healthy packed lunch.

I stopped doing that when I noticed that however much I shouted at the TV and put my hand up, Dimbleby never took my comments on to ask the panel.....

Doesn't do your blood pressure any good!

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Hazel
www.hazelandjanesallotment.blogspot.com
update Sun 30/11/2008......Indoor Allotmenteering too!.....

Just thought I would jump in and add my five penny worth!

When I was at school, umpy ump years ago, Cookery as a subject was frowned upon for 'higher achivers' as 'anyone can cook - you are better than that!' Got my goat somewhat as I always wanted to cook - so I learnt from Mum and Gran. My point here is that schools have made proper cooking the poor alternative, any job is better than feeding yourself and you family. All for the sake of the school ratings. Is there a case to try to push for 'domestic science' classes for all children to be part of the school time table?

Also, if we want children to be able to recognise a raw veg, would gardening clubs at shools be the answer - not all would be interested, and yes this means more work for someone, but a few might get the gardening bug and I can see a future where we have to import our gardeners and farmers because it is 'beneath' the then generation!

Agghhh! Rant over.

I with a class mate was the first boy to do cookery at school (1964-65)
Only learnt the basics, but has kept me in good stead all my life (can stiil boil an egg )and I still enjoy cooking to this day.

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I cook with wine, sometimes I even add it to the food.
W. C. Fields

I was in Tesco today and the worbatans bread is now £1.03 so I siad I supose it will be on offer next week and the girl on the bread Isle siad no did you not hear all the bread has gone up cos of the drought in New Zeland all the wheat comes from there?
I thought we grow it hear in this country
also found this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6135086.stm
just thought I'd shere it with you all

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Some things in their natural state have the most VIVID colors
Dobby

Right on TPeers, we have to learn to cook from somewhere, and it should be either home or school. My OH's mum wouldn't let him move out of the family house until he could cook tatis piminit (sorry, NO idea of spelling!!), a Welsh dish with bacon, onions and potatoes, filling and sustaining, which he cooked for me when I first met him and is totally simple and delicious! But you can't rely on your parents being able to cook these days, so school is the obvious answer. And as many people have pointed out, kids are much more likely to eat veggies they've grown themselves. Aren't kids taught 'life skills' any more? Like how to avoid getting pregnant, what smoking does to you, that sort of thing? Isn't how to feed yourself heathily important in this context too?

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Dwell simply ~ love richly