Grow Your Own Magazine

Thanls for the kind comments Alice. I will keep you informed on progress.

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it's written in the wind that we're two, carved out in the sand that we're real,
it's lit up in the stars that we're true, we're destined in the sky to be glad
Paul Weller
http://johntygreentoes.blogspot.com/

Sorry JG, but I certainly do not want the cheap, tasteless meat that the supermarkets provide.

Today we drove a 60+ mile round trip to Bakewell Farmers' Market, and then on to the Chatsworth Farm Shop. What we bought was local produce.

Your quote "you get what you pay for" is just not true. You get what you are prepared to pay for would be more appropriate. Aka, "I'm not paying that for that" syndrome.

If you want cheap, tasteless meat, then by all means go to a supermarket. If you want meat that has been humanely reared, butchered and hung for an appropriate period, then you have to go to a decent butcher.

If you ar not prepared to drive 40 miles to buy the decent produce, well, just keep on eating the crap!!

valmarg

Cheep
Fast
Good

Choose two and the other dosent work -ie good and fast = not cheep.

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Et tū, quis es?

Wouldn't call 60+ round trip particularly local!!!!

One of the things I now try to do is question whether you actually need something or is there a more local alternative that you can use. Also, if there's a shop / market you really love, make sure you tie it into visiting friends etc and don't just buy a single item so as to maximise the negative effect of the petrol.

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Some of us live in the past, always talking about back then. Some of us live in the future, always planning what we are going to do. And, then there are those, who neither look behind or ahead, but just enjoy the moment of right now.

Which one are you and is it how you want to be?

Valmarg

My point is that it is just plain unrealistic to expect people living in the middle of my home city - Hull - to drive 40 miles to find tasy meat. It's OK for those of us who have cars and the wealth needed to use them. It's and OK solution for you and me - but not for the overwhelming majority.

What we need is access to quality without the drive. Surely bringing meat to the people is a lower-carbon option than thousands of us driving 40 miles for our sausages.

__________________
it's written in the wind that we're two, carved out in the sand that we're real,
it's lit up in the stars that we're true, we're destined in the sky to be glad
Paul Weller
http://johntygreentoes.blogspot.com/

Absolutely - but we're back to supply and demand - your if your farmer who has raised happy piggies etc (i.e. better, but more expensive meat) is driving 40 miles to the centre of built-ups-ville, he need to sell his better (but more expensive) meat to the masses, or he won't bother coming back again!

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Hazel
www.hazelandjanesallotment.blogspot.com
update Sat 04/10/2008......sorry, Keats......

I usually shop at morrisons as it is closest but am really getting fed up with the stuff on offer, especially the range of veg. Their organic range is getting better but still very limited.

BTW I have been told that asda are going to start selling their fruit and veg loose and supplying paper bags to save on packaging.

Hazel

So we have a conundrum. A rapidly fattening population with no access to quality meat and veg - and this after 10 years.........

I agree it is supply and demand. Our organic farmer may drive 40 miles to market and then not be able to sell his produce simply because the demand is there but the means to buy it is not. The real problem is the global market in crap meat which means that we eat too much meat and expect it to cost next to nothing. One solution would be to halve our meat intake and keep our weekly budget the same (i.e. buy organic/local).

Another solution would be to have a government that didn't allow the importation of s**t for its people to eat, i.e. meddle with the market.

Did I say that out loud?

__________________
it's written in the wind that we're two, carved out in the sand that we're real,
it's lit up in the stars that we're true, we're destined in the sky to be glad
Paul Weller
http://johntygreentoes.blogspot.com/

Yes, you did, but the govenment isn't listening!!!!!!

__________________

Some of us live in the past, always talking about back then. Some of us live in the future, always planning what we are going to do. And, then there are those, who neither look behind or ahead, but just enjoy the moment of right now.

Which one are you and is it how you want to be?

Alison

...point taken...

Maybe a petition on the No10 website

__________________
it's written in the wind that we're two, carved out in the sand that we're real,
it's lit up in the stars that we're true, we're destined in the sky to be glad
Paul Weller
http://johntygreentoes.blogspot.com/

I think that it's an education thing here then, isn't it JT?

If everyone did as you suggest, we would have no cr*p meat for sale as there would be no demand for it, and we'd all have better diets! At least Jamie O seems to have made a start there.

BTW suspect that gment intervention is not the answer - regulation takes away peoples ability to think for themselves a lot of the time - I reckon that we'd all be better off if we decided for ourselves (through education) to do the right/sensible/commonsense things in life rather than being told what we can and cant do all the time (e.g. 'elf & safety).

All IMHO.

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Hazel
www.hazelandjanesallotment.blogspot.com
update Sat 04/10/2008......sorry, Keats......

You can take the plebs to fresh fruit and veg but you cant make them buy it or indeed eat it.

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Kindest regards, David.

http://pigletsplots.blogspot.com/
updated lots - Sunday 28th at 1640hrs

Here's a question for you
If you had to choose between organic fruit and veg which had been flown in from the continent (or beyond), then trucked the length of the country to your supermarket shelves, or fresh local produce with a carbon footprint of say twenty miles, what would you do ? (The local produce is not necessarily organic but is grown conventionally)
I find it interesting that certain supermarket chains are allowed to state that up to 150 miles is local - that's like saying that Inverness is local to Glasgow !

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Rat

British by birth
Scottish by the Grace of God

Blog updated Wednesday 17th September

Hazel and other Grapes,

Thanks for your comments. All that follows is IMHO.

As you know I am a teacher, I passionately believe in education, it's my life. However I can't admit that it always works - and it patently isn't working around healthy eating, exercise etc...

People always see eucation as a way out of every social difficulty we face - and in that sense education is government interference - but it patently isn't working.

I've worked in so called challenging primaries, i.e. ones with high socio-economic deprivation, and am currently in a fairly well-to-do school in relatively (but not exclusively) well off Beverley. At the moment a lot of children at school eat very healthily, and this I believe is reflected in their general health. Packed lunches are ever more popular as concerned middle-class parents (myself included!) want to opt for organic food, food that my cook just can't afford to buy. Colleagues in deprived areas report that children there are ever heavier, less active, less likely to choose fruit over sugar, blah, blah, blah. And that is despite the best efforts of New Labour and the whole state education system, not to mention health promotion, the media and so on. It just isn't working.

Why? It's not because the "plebs" (I didn't appreciate that description BTW pigletwillie!) are genetically stupid, it's because they are poor, they simply cannot afford to eat healthily. And that is why I believe the government should meddle with the market - that or condemn people to a life of food and helath poverty. Believe it or not I do have an allergic reaction to government interference and always stick 2 fingers up at speed cameras, but on this issue I'm convinced it's right to interfere because health and life is at stake.

Sorry - I know I'm labouring the point, and it's way past my bedtime, but please indulge me one one last point.

I spent 6 years living in the most deprived housing estate in the UK. It's called North Bransholme (HU7 if you want to multimap it). If you haven't got a car - and that applied to the majority of people - the only food buying option was a place called KWIK SAVE. I rest my case!

120 miles for a pack of sausages - give me a break (IMHO!)

__________________
it's written in the wind that we're two, carved out in the sand that we're real,
it's lit up in the stars that we're true, we're destined in the sky to be glad
Paul Weller
http://johntygreentoes.blogspot.com/

[quote=johnty greentoes;71286]Hazel and other Grapes,


I spent 6 years living in the most deprived housing estate in the UK. It's called North Bransholme (HU7 if you want to multimap it). If you haven't got a car - and that applied to the majority of people - the only food buying option was a place called KWIK SAVE. I rest my case!

It could be worst...the only food buying option could be COOP
Regards
Don vincenzo

Don V

That's a really interesting comment about Co-op as I always think of them as Fair Trading, Organic etc... Sure there's the price...

In Hull they have 6 stores, and market them vigorously along ethically principled lines - every home recently got a guide to Co-op in Hull.

Where are you? It could be that they are improving things piecemeal and not across the piece.

__________________
it's written in the wind that we're two, carved out in the sand that we're real,
it's lit up in the stars that we're true, we're destined in the sky to be glad
Paul Weller
http://johntygreentoes.blogspot.com/

Funnily enough as I was reading JT's IMHO bit above refing Kwiksave I was thinking that it was a shame it wasn't a COOP. In a recent survey COOP came out top on keeping salt and sugar contents down in their cheaper own brand stuff and as JT says above they have a strong Fair Trade ethic. This is throughout the country and whilst some of their stores a pretty scruffy they've got the right idea.

I don't necessarily agree that a good quality diet has to cost a lot (although obviously lack of funds does restrict choice) and most people of at least a certain amount of choice but it isn't easy. Education is obvioulsy part of it, but there is only so much schools can do when some kids are getting a totally different message from family, friends and all others around them. (On that subject, did anybody see that 15 stone kid on TV last night, it was heart breaking). Not sure how government intervention would work either as any party would be reluctant to do anything too drastic in case it had an impact on voting. Somewhere along the line, something has gone very wrong and hopefully with time it can be reversed but whilst supermarkets continue to pedal so much poor quality food (especially when actively marketed as healthy, low fat or whatever) I can't see it happening soon.

Sorry for that, feel better now!

__________________

Some of us live in the past, always talking about back then. Some of us live in the future, always planning what we are going to do. And, then there are those, who neither look behind or ahead, but just enjoy the moment of right now.

Which one are you and is it how you want to be?

I feel that I have to join in on this one because I have been a passionate supporter of Co-operatives for many years. Unfortunately Johnty is right - it's about money. When people are on minimal incomes their choices are limited. Cheap food is designed for people on small budgets and it is very hard to condemn them for choosing to get 'more' for their money.

Co-ops are wonderful, ethically and philosophically fabulous, but... they are more expensive than other shops. In Loughborough we used to have a large Co-op in town, supermarket, banking hall and clothing/furniture sales points. It closed many years ago. The little Co-ops in the villages have also closed and now if you want to buy from the Co-op you have to travel several miles away, either to Shepshed or Syston. Unfortunately economics hold sway and if people don't use the store, it closes. (The Kwiksave in town has also closed, but that was after Tescos opened a massive big store on the edge of the poorest housing estate in town).

Even our historic and wonderful street markets twice weekly sell international produce out of season. Local vegetables in season are available, especially at the farmers market once a month, but there it is more expensive than the supermarkets.

While governments refuse to interfere with 'market forces' and allow manufacturers to reap fantastic profits by producing cheap rubbish, and our education system does not open minds to thinking for themselves, but channels children through the 'system' (sorry Johnty - I am an ex-teacher) I cannot see things changing much.

Maybe a Campaign for Real Food, or Allotment Revolution might do it. Meanwhile I try to feed the family good fresh food and spread the word in my own little way. Perhaps that's how to do it.

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Regards, Jane
What sane person could live in this world and not be crazy? The creative adult is the child who has survived.
Ursula LeGuin
http://www.etribes.com/madderbat

We have three Co-op stores in Tain which has a population of 4500, but serves a large area. Currently Lidl have planning permission, and both Asda and Tesco have both submitted applications to build stores on the outskirts of our wee town.
We shop at the Co for a number of reasons - it is close by, we know all the staff, good cafe, fairtrade goods, ethical values etc. (I also now bank with the Co, and had to complete an ethics questionaire before I could open my account.)
However it is more expensive - we would be cheaper to travel to one of the 4 24hr Tescos that are between here and Inverness, but do not like the way that the larger supermarkets control their suppliers - especially on the farming side. How can the dairy industry in the UK sustain itself when Tesco pay the producers 19 pence a litre for something that costs 21p a litre to produce ? There used to be quite a few dairy farms up here - the nearest is now 35 miles away and has just recently sold most of their herd - kept only 19 cows to keep a small luxury ice cream project going.
BTW, Inverness is nicknamed Tesco-Town. They opened a second 24hr store just 10 mins walk from their first one - just to stop Asda getting the site !!)

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Rat

British by birth
Scottish by the Grace of God

Blog updated Wednesday 17th September

Hi Johnty, I am suprised you found the word Pleb so offensive, my dictionary defines it a pleb as a "commoner" originally of ancient Rome, I.E. not one of the ruling elite, therefore I count my self as one.

I am not certain that I agree wilth your argument that it is purely fiscal the fact that people eat crap. I am fairly certain that if money was no object most of those poor people would still eat crap. Two friends of ours are barristers with a combined income of over 150K, they eat crap because they have not come from an environment in which good food was the norm and so know no better. On the opposite foot is a single parent who feeds her kids fresh food, which to be honest is some of the best I have seen outside of a very good restaurant, because her mother always cooked from fresh and to do different would be alien to her. Its not only money, its the environment you grew up in that makes a big difference.

Also you dont have to eat organic food to eat healthily, eating FRESH would be a good start.

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Kindest regards, David.

http://pigletsplots.blogspot.com/
updated lots - Sunday 28th at 1640hrs