New plot old lawn

**chris** · 04-12-2011, 04:41 PM

I double dug a bed that was previously lawn - inverted the grass sod at the bottom, and went from there.

If you can stack it somewhere (upside down) it'll rot down to a lovely loam which you can add back to your beds/borders in around a year odd.

**Aberdeenplotter** · 04-12-2011, 04:46 PM

totally agree with stacking it. That way, you also get the chance to shake out couchgrass or any other perennial weeds that may be lurking.

**Currysniffa** · 04-12-2011, 04:49 PM

Double diggings OK if you don't have clay soil, which I have on my lottie, if you have clay under your top soil I'd suggest single digging your veg plot and stack the turf as chrismarks suggested .

**Rob the Radish** · 04-12-2011, 08:05 PM

As above, stack it upside down, when dead it is an excellent source of nitrogen.

**Two_Sheds** · 04-12-2011, 11:22 PM

I dug up huge areas of lawn to turn into flower beds, I just turned one spit over (one spade depth). I got a little regrowth, but that was easily enough weeded out

* do not do this with couch grass *

**Dead Dogs** · 06-12-2011, 01:06 PM

I tried two methods.

Method A;
Removed turff, approx 2 inch depth. Then dug out additional spade depth. Broke up sub-soil to spade / fork depth. Placed turff upside down in bottom of trench and back filled.

This worked really well with little or no regroth.

Method B;
Placed thick matting material over grass and left it all spring & summer. In autumn dug over.
Although the grass didn't grow back, other weeds did. Plus with this method, it was difficult to break up the mat of grass roots.

**snohare** · 07-12-2011, 08:19 PM

Y'know, I keep hearing of this wonderful turf stacking idea, where you put the turves in piles, grass to grass, soil to soil, cover it for a few months, then off with the covers et voila ! Lovely loam. I've even advised people on how to do it, and seen them succeed happily.
It's not working at my allotment.

The stack is two metres long, a metre high, about 70cm wide- covered with cardboard. Every time I look, it is just a solid mass of caked,dry hard soil with green shoots of couch, dandelion and other nefarious weeds poised to spring into action. It's been there the entire summer, and I'm not hopeful for the winter's outcome.

**veggiechicken** · 07-12-2011, 08:29 PM

Cover the mound with summat to exclude light. Come spring, punch holes into it and plant it up, both sides and on top. Voila, an extra bit of planting space somewhat akin to Hogelkultur!

**snohare** · 07-12-2011, 08:34 PM

Lovely idea, but the cardboard was there for that purpose. After a few months it has just about disintegrated, when I lift it up underneath is bone dry and seems to have invented a time warp that saves weeds from dying.
Planting into that would require a hammer and chisel, and nothing would outlast the voracious couch and dandelion roots anyway !
I've tried pouring water onto it, on the assumption that this would help rot the dying vegetation under the covering. Didn't seem to help.

**veggiechicken** · 07-12-2011, 08:41 PM

Far be it from me to be critical but both AP and TS have advised against including couch grass in the mound. Perhaps there is an alternative way of using your couch - turn it into a bench and sit on it.

**PMW** · 07-12-2011, 09:23 PM

Thanks for all the advice.

I don't want to fill the beds with weeds so I'll think I'll play safe and leave it covered and stacked up. I'll have another look at it in a few months and see how its doing.

Regarding filling the veg beds, I have just been offered a couple of bags of chicken manure mixed with some aubiose (hemp) and a little bit of barley straw. I think its pretty fresh so not sure the best thing to do with it. Would it be ok added to the beds now as I won't be planting until the spring or should I just add it to the compost bin to rot down properly first?

**Aberdeenplotter** · 07-12-2011, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by snohare View Post

turves in piles, grass to grass, soil to soil, cover it for a few months, then off with the covers et voila ! Lovely loam.
covered with cardboard.

I always stack mine grass side down, soil up and I don't cover. I think the way you have done it has caused the pile to be too dry.

I know that weeds will show at some point the way I do it but I shake the heap up after a few months removing any noxious weeds as I go. That introduces air which allows the composting process to continue. Try it matey

**Two_Sheds** · 08-12-2011, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by snohare View Post

it is just a solid mass of caked,dry hard soil with green shoots of couch, dandelion and other nefarious weeds

I had this problem when I took my plot on. There was so much couch, dock and bramble that I didn't have room to put it all, but was determined to use it not bin it.
It went in water butts to drown: some of the couch survived that, so I tipped it all out and left it in a long low heap (low because my dicky shoulder won't let me reach UP) covered with tarp. Well, the tarp disintegrated before the couch did, so I once again raked over it all, pulling out the surviving weeds and drowning them in a butt again (with lid on this time to exclude light).
I got there eventually

Originally posted by PMW View Post

I have just been offered a couple of bags of chicken manure ...should I just add it to the compost bin to rot down properly first?

I would always rot stuff on the compost heap first rather than put potential problems straight into your veg beds

**Donny** · 08-12-2011, 10:00 AM

I did this recently with a patch of lawn 16 feet by 11 feet. Used my tiller and just raked the left overs away. Stabbed the ground all over with a fork and water 3 times a day because the ground was so hard. When the top is softer just push a fork in to just lift the ground and water again.

I did this over 3 days and then it dug just fine, cultivate the lumps after and prepare with whatever manure.

Cultivators/tillers can be hired quite cheaply, luckily I own mine.

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