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ive given in!
my plot is a mess!
ive spent days diggin out couch grass and have still half the plot to go!
the main problem is that i dug out all the couch grass i can because some family are bringing a rotovator round saturday!
the remaining part of the plot is a jungle of weeds and rubbish!
im considering spraying it, even though i wanted to try and stay organic as possible
i think the council had sprayed it before we took it so i suppose it wont matter too much.

what should i use to kill the buggers off? and how should i go about it?
could i rotovate the whole lot then spray it?

p.s i know that rotovators shouldnt really go any where near couch grass normaly!

any advice would be much appriciated!
cheers buttercup

I don't blame you for being disheartened Buttercup! I'm no expert on weeds but I think you have to have some green growth showing if you are going to spray weedkiller, so don't think it would be any use if you rotivated it & then sprayed. I don't like using chemicals though so maybe someone who uses them can advise you. You might be getting into a whole heap of trouble though if you rotivate the couch grass & weeds & then start to try & grow straight away, I think most people try covering the ground with black plastic/cardboard or similar to try & cut out the light & kill the weeds before cultivating anything usually.

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Into every life a little rain must fall.

You honestly really don't need weedkiller. That's lazy gardening in my opinion. And also ineffective if you don't know what you're doing and don't do it properly.
If you rotavate, you'll need to go along afterwards and fork out all the bits of root. Then every time you get a new weed, you have to fork it out. Keep on top of it, get them when they're little, and you will win.
If you can't do all the plot at once, keep some of it under carpets or other mulch. This will kill or weaken the weeds until you're ready to dig them out.

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~ What do I think of Western civilisation? I think it would be a very good idea ~ Gandhi

thanks! but im not lazy! i just wont be living in this area in couple of years! i rent my property and on what budget we have we cant afford a garden aswell!
this is not what i wanted, i wish i didnt work long hours and i wish that i had more time to dig through it thoroughly and i wish that my boyfriend wasnt finishing college this year and taking me away from my newly aquired allotment! but lifes a bitch!
aah well! im greatfull for what time i have on my plot roundup or no roundup!
cheers buttercup

Dont beat yourself up Buttercup, it sounds as if you're up against it time wise with the rotovator coming and you not fully ready, but having a plot is not just about getting it perfect, its about having fun whilst you are doing it, so relax and enjoy it!

I know you want to remove as much of the couch as you can first, and that it can come back from any bit of root left, but if the rotovator is the only way you are going to be able to move forwards and the timing is out of your hands, then go for it and get it rotovated and then deal with what comes back later!

If you fork over and remove by hand as much root as you can, once its been rotovated and again as you are planting, then you will go some ways to lessening the potential problems.

If you do get regrowth then it can be hand forked out as it grows, prefferably whilst it is still small, and if its too big a job to do by hand, then use the glysophate carefully to keep it under control and dont beat yourself up about it! Yes, I know we all want to be as organic and chemical free as we can, but sometimes it just isnt possible, and if you cant afford the time to do so, then to my mind you would be better off treating it and having a good harvest than leaving it and having a poor or failed crop harvest! In time you will get it under control and be able to dispense with using any chemicals, but for the first year I'd not be too harsh on yourself!

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Blessings
Suzanne (aka Mrs Dobby)

'Garden naked - get some colour in your cheeks'!

The Dobby's Pumpkin Patch - a blogspot work in progress!
Last updated 26th November2008 - more new piccies!

Thats what I like to see Mrs Dobby, pragmatic advice, rather than dogmatic advice.

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Always thank people who have helped you immediately, as they may not be around to thank later.
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Thankyou Peter! We've been fortunate in having 2 of us 2 double dig the plot over, and remove as much of the weed roots as possible, but I am certain that we havent got it all, had about 8 new bits of bindwed show up and 10 dandelions grown so far, all of which have been dug out by hand, but if they are endangering our crops and we cant keep them under control, then we will have to go down the weedkiller route ourselves! Its not that we want to, but if its the only way, then so be it! I dont see the point in beating yourself up about it cos you feel as tho you've failed, after all, until a few years ago everyone was using chemicals without any qualms, and if it was good enough then, then why should we worry too much now! Ok, ideally we dont want to, but if its a choice between crops oor no crops, then its a no brainer really!

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Blessings
Suzanne (aka Mrs Dobby)

'Garden naked - get some colour in your cheeks'!

The Dobby's Pumpkin Patch - a blogspot work in progress!
Last updated 26th November2008 - more new piccies!

Our second plot has mares tail at the back end and is even worse than couch. Its much less of a problem that it was as we dig lots of root out in the winter and hit it hard with glysophate during the year.

Its not lazy gardening at all and I challenge anybody to eradicate it without any weapon or assistance to hand. Plastic is ok if you want to sit twiddling your thumbs for the two years it will take for couch grasss to completely die off. Carpet also is perhaps not as chemical free as one might think.

I garden with pragmatic organic principles. I never spray to prevent insects or disease and never now use glysophate anywhere else on my plots as the weeds now are under control. Also we companion plant, have a wildlife area and provide amphibian, insect and bird boxes, all of which are used despite the black cloud of "glyspophate user" hanging over the plot". As a new (I pressume) plot holder please dont waste the season, grasp the nettle, spray the stuff in April when its actively growing and then rotovate the lot under. Any bits you miss you can dig out.

You are more likely to keep the plot on into its second year if your plot actually yields something other than bloody hardwork. Alternatively you can wear hemp knickers and go "Amish" and struggle all season long.

Tin hat on and duck behind the parapet.

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Kindest regards, David.

http://pigletsplots.blogspot.com/
updated - Sunday 19th at 2100hrs

I could'nt agree more Pigletwillie. I have been gardening for a good few years now. When I took over my fathers garden it was an overgrown mess. Each year I get a little more of it under control but have never been able to control the lot. This year I am going to use roundup. Once and for all I need to get it up and running. I have worked really hard over the last years but sometimes you just have to give in and use that little bit of extra help that roundup gives.
I say, go for it Buttercup.

Luckily I haven't had to resort to glypsophate, but if I needed to, I would have no qualms about doing so after weighing up the pro's and cons!

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My Majesty made for him a garden anew in order
to present to him vegetables and all beautiful flowers.- Offerings of Thutmose III to Amon-Ra (1500 BCE)

I resorted to glyphosphate last year after trying all sorts of other methods to kill the brambles and nettles at the back of my garden. This year I might just be able to get enough of the dead roots dug out to enable some planting.

Since you are short of time, I would suggest you use the most time effective help available and get planting and enjoy yourself. Gardening is supposed to be fun after all.

Good luck.

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Happy Gardening,
Shirley

http://www.honeyjukes.co.uk

When you think about the chemicals that we used to use years ago, glyphosate isn't that bad. The recent shake up of EU rules got rid of some of the more 'dangerous' chemicals a few years ago.

thanks everyone for you help!
its disheartning to have to compromise yourself,
i never wanted to even consider using chemicals, but i have probably one year to try and get the most out of this plot!
me and my boyfreind have been dreaming of being self sufficiant since we met three years ago! we are conciencious people who are aiming to become organic, but im not breaking my back ( i already have!) to not see any result for this years efforts!
I, like many come on the vine to get advice. everyone brings something to the table, thier worries and the hints and tips, but i feel it isnt wise to inflict your own opinions on others because they prefer to do things a certain way!
i will inevetably do things my own way!
maybe leave it to dig later in the year, or spray the f*****s dead!
thanks for all your brilliant advice,
i shall follow my heart and see where it takes me!
and thanks for the support it can get a bit disconbobulating!
cheers buttercup

True. I agree with Pigletwillie about mare's tails too. We have them in the front garden. The problem is not just that they grow from bits of root (they do) or that they can go VERY deep (they can) but that the roots are black and in my soil it's very hard to see them. As to chemiclas - I prefer not to but it's not an ideal world - you do what you have to. You will get a harvest you enjoy, rather than spending 2 years looking at black plastic then moving on.

I admire your aims buttercup. We aim to be as self sufficient in fruit and veg as we can be whilst being organic to boot. However to be mostly self sufficient we have had to be a bit more pragmatic in our outlook in the very short term to allow us to reap the rewards long term.

Like you we didnt want to use chemicals but after struggling like mad for the first year we had an epiphany and reluctantly used glysophate to nail half a plot of couch grass. The results were spectacular and for the past two years not a drop of spray or chemical has touched the plot and is unlikely to in the future.

You have free will to travel your own path and try your own methods as suits your concience.

Most importantly, enjoy it!!!

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Kindest regards, David.

http://pigletsplots.blogspot.com/
updated - Sunday 19th at 2100hrs

As you've not got long to establish your plot Buttercup, I'd say do whatever is necessary. Alan Titchmarsh champions the organic way of growing now but even he admits to resorting to weedkiller initially to clear his plot.Good luck.

__________________
Into every life a little rain must fall.

thanks everyone!
whatever we decide it'll be for the best!

this wont apply to many grapes, and im sure it has been said before and will be said again,
if you cant cope with your allotment , get help or give it to someone else!
think about the people who will take it on after you!
we have paid a £50 deposit which is refundable if we return the allotment in a weed free usable condition.
ours was a competely neglected mess with rubbish in the soil, and the council sprayed it before we got there, taking away the decision to be organic in the
first place!
with more and more people taking on allotment now maybe the horrible nightmare of clearing allotments will be a thing of the past !
thanks everyone,
your helping me live the dream!
cheers buttercup x x

the plot ive just taken on was covered in couch. most of it still is as ive only had 3 days digging. i was going to double dig but i noticed that the couch roots dont go down very far. if i double dig and couch roots go in further down, will i effectively be infecting the lower soil or will they not grow to far down?

Hi Buttercup
I took a plot on at the August bank holiday last year covered in knee/waist high couch grass and thanks to the advice and motivation of the lovely grapes here on the vine I'm pleased to say I've nearly beaten it. I only resorted to glyphosphate on a third of the plot (something that I really didn't want to do originally but I'm glad now that I did) and on monday of this week I planted my first early potatoes in that very same area - so don't give up hope. Even if you only get part of the plot in a state to grow then its a real start and it can only get better.

I don't know how true this is but I did read somewhere that outdoor tomatoes can help to kill off couch grass. And apparently potatoes can really help in clearing areas that have been full of weeds.

It is back breaking at times but little and often seems to be the key and you will get there. And on the really tought days red wine seems to be the cure all !!!!

Good luck
Clare

Hi Buttercup, I'm one of the old fashioned gardeners (30 years service before the mast, man and boy) and I'm sorry is this upsets all the organic types, but I tried organic once and apart from breaking my back, the results were a shambolic mess. Now I hit the weeds running with B&Q weedkiller when they're big enough to absorb it, wait until they're dead, spread the muck, then rotovate. All that's left is to hoe the annuals off and feed the crop without feeding the weeds as well.

I shall now retire to the fallout shelter, don my tin hat and await the bombardment.