Grow Your Own Magazine

mally69 · #1 (**permalink**) 12-12-2006, 07:58 PM

Hello all , just after some advice got my first ever plot(very weedy) 2ft high not used for approx 5-6 years.Ive covered it all in round up and sheeted it over in black poly.H ow long do i leave it like this before rotivation and we are on a tight budget, instead of buying well rotted compost will fresh horse muck be OK to go straight on soil in time for planting in early spring.
Any advice more than welcome :
Cheers any merry Xmas to u all

NOG · #2 (**permalink**) 12-12-2006, 08:21 PM

Don't buy compost the stables are desprate to get rid of it.

I would dig fresh manure in now....and also start a compost heap (bin) now.

It will rot down in the ground.

Mrs Dobby · #3 (**permalink**) 12-12-2006, 08:24 PM

Hi mally69, and wecome to the madhouse known as the vine! There's a great bunch of folks on here, plenty of good advice, fun and banter too, so I'm sure you'll get plenty of advice!

Congrats on your first plot, we got ours 13 weeks ago (there's a full thread all about it with piccies and loads of advice from all the other grapes who answered all of my questions here Newbie seeking advice / opinions / help! Possibility of an allotment! which may be of some help!)

We too are on a tight budget, so have managed to clear and dig our plot so far on our own labour, I know a rotavator is less physical labour, but if there are perennial roots in the beds, then rotovating them will only spread them and possibly make the problem worse!

Before you covered the beds did you cut down the weeds or dig out the roots of the weeds, or just cover them over as they were? I believe the covering works by preventing the weeds from accessing the light they need to grow, so they die back when they try to grow (plus it prevents any seeds from getting into the beds) so depending on what the state of the beds was when you covered it will depend on how you will progress from here!

If the weeds are still there, then Nick will probably tell you to use roundup on them and then cover back up, but I'm sure he (and a few others) will soon be here with plenty of advice!

Horse muck is fine, but fresh it may well be too strong for your plants for the spring, it can 'burn' the roots of plants unless it's been well rotted first, so I'd probably steer clear of it, or get some and store it to rot down for next year! If your plot hasnt been used for 5 or 6 years, then it is possible that the soil will be in reasonable condition anyhows, so ubless you have any specific soil problems (too clayey or too sandy) then I'd just see what you can do with it as is, just feed the plants regularly using a water soluble feed for this year!

Anyhows, sorry I cant really offer you too much advice, I'm still learning (rapidly) myself!

Oh, and a happy xmas to you too!

PS any piccies of your plot?

madderbat · #4 (**permalink**) 12-12-2006, 08:55 PM

As a relative newbie, certainly to this forum, I am still learning too. Mr B & I got our allotment last year, and have begun to post about it on 'Our allotment'

From what we understand about Roundup, it needs 6-8 months to get out of the system and you really wont be able to grow much next year if you have put this on. However, if the soil has been fallow for a number of years you won't actually need to put much manure into it until after yor first crops.

Rotavating is not actually a great idea, as Mrs D says, it spreads the roots and makes it worse. Digging and pulling is the best way to lift perennial roots. You can plant in small patches as you can cope with it. When I started on our allotment last spring I dug 2 spade widths across 1/2 the plot and pulled all the twitch (grass roots) out, then set seed. It worked quite well and we did have some crops. Mr B has put a lot of effort in this year, so it's looking clearer now. Really you can't beat digging, but it doesn't have to be done all at once.

As for horse manure, it should be rotted for 5 years before using, otherwise the acid can burn plants.

I am more than happy to be put right by more experienced gardeners here, and I'm sure they will!

Wishing you great joy and good growing,

Snadger · #5 (**permalink**) 12-12-2006, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madderbat

As a relative newbie, certainly to this forum, I am still learning too. Mr B & I got our allotment last year, and have begun to post about it on 'Our allotment'

From what we understand about Roundup, it needs 6-8 months to get out of the system and you really wont be able to grow much next year if you have put this on. However, if the soil has been fallow for a number of years you won't actually need to put much manure into it until after yor first crops.

Rotavating is not actually a great idea, as Mrs D says, it spreads the roots and makes it worse. Digging and pulling is the best way to lift perennial roots. You can plant in small patches as you can cope with it. When I started on our allotment last spring I dug 2 spade widths across 1/2 the plot and pulled all the twitch (grass roots) out, then set seed. It worked quite well and we did have some crops. Mr B has put a lot of effort in this year, so it's looking clearer now. Really you can't beat digging, but it doesn't have to be done all at once.

As for horse manure, it should be rotted for 5 years before using, otherwise the acid can burn plants.

I am more than happy to be put right by more experienced gardeners here, and I'm sure they will!

Wishing you great joy and good growing,

I think someone has been overstating the potency of Roundup although weedkillers shouldn't be taken lightly!

Roundups active ingedient is Glypsophate. It becomes inert on contact with the soil, so shouldn't cause a problem next year. Theoretically you can plant or sow seeds the same day as you spray the weedkiller with no toxic affects!

Even though it has low Phyto toxicity, it, along with any other weedkillers should only be used as a last resort and all precautions stated on the label should be observed.

If the allotment is sprayed under optimum conditions not only will all top growth be killed but all of the weeds roots should die.
Glypsophate is systemic so should kill the roots as well as top growth!
If there has been a good 'kill' rotovating should be ok but to be honest I am not keen on using weedkillers or rotovators!

beefy · #6 (**permalink**) 12-12-2006, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madderbat

From what we understand about Roundup, it needs 6-8 months to get out of the system and you really wont be able to grow much next year if you have put this on.

Welcome mally69 hope you enjoy the vine .You don't have to be mad to take part - but it helps

Madderbat you can go in 14 - 21 days after the last application of Roundup and sow your crops .Roundup works by being absorbed by the growing plant through the leaves and destroying the structure of the plant thereby killing it .Any spray that hits the ground becomes inactive in a few minutes .
I know this may not be to everyones liking and I know there are a lot of organic gardeners out there who do things differently from me .I personally was brought up on a farm and hold all the relevant spraying and pesticides certificates.I have no problems with chemicals if used and applied properly at the recomended rates .
I would remove the covers as roundup needs a growing plant to work properly - they must be growing to die if you see what I mean.In 10 - 14 days you will see what is dying and if you have missed any bits you can go in and treat those parts to make sure you have got all of it.
Good luck I wish you all the best in your new venture.

beefy · #7 (**permalink**) 12-12-2006, 09:40 PM

Also Snadger types faster than me

Mrs Dobby · #8 (**permalink**) 12-12-2006, 09:41 PM

See Mally69, I told you they'd all be here soon!

sewer rat · #9 (**permalink**) 12-12-2006, 09:42 PM

Re the use of Glyphosate to clear a plot
The Soil Association has actually advocated the use of a glyphosate weedkiller to kill off all perrenial weeds before starting the two year conversion period to gain full organic status. This does not mean that the glyphosate stays in the soil for two years - as Snadger says, it becomes inert on contact with the soil.

madderbat · #10 (**permalink**) 12-12-2006, 09:48 PM

Thought so, knew you lot would put me right.!

Thanks, and sorry if I frightened you Mally69. Happy growing.

Snadger · #11 (**permalink**) 12-12-2006, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Dobby

See Mally69, I told you they'd all be here soon!

I bet we seem like preying bloody mantis as well!

mally69 · #12 (**permalink**) 13-12-2006, 10:12 AM

A big Thankyou all for your quick responce,im also a newcomer to internet and computers so bear with me my teenage son helps me if im stuck,which is all the time, it took me 20 mins this morning just to find out if i had any replies i was too excited to wait for him to come home from school.
So ive already laid down round up but its fine to plant(sow) for spring i now know what twitch is thanks Madderbat, and no need for manure this year due to there probably some goodness in the soiland finally looks like the rotivators on hold and the spades coming out(better get some nurofen for the back pain) cheers you lot be in touch soon.
Mally

nick the grief · #13 (**permalink**) 13-12-2006, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snadger

I bet we seem like preying bloody mantis as well!

surley that should be Preying bloody Manti Snadger

Not a lot to add to what you've been told. Leave fresh muck for 3 - 6 months before use (12 months prefaerably) our is you can get enough of it you can make a hot bed for growing earlier crops.

I use Roundup on my plot when I first got it mainly on the docks, best to pick a nice sunny windless day ( otherwise you can suffer with drift) spray them over & pray id doesn't rain for an hour you should be OK then - longer the better though.

Still what you can do in the mean time is get loads of cardboard boxes & put a layer of them down , then some municipal compost (se if your council flogs it) or your horse muck then cover over with black plastic then plant your spud in this in march time & when the shoots push the plastic up, cut a cross (just big enough to let them thru) carefully so the spuds grow upthrough the cross. That way you won't have to earth them up & the worms will do the digging for you and the carboard & plastice will exclude the light.

If you are worried about it looking bare buy some cheap tubs from the pound shop & plant them up & use them to anchor the plastic down & give you a bit of colour. You could aslo grow some baby Carrots in tubs or Beetroot or Mini Lettuces (little Gem or Blush)

Welcome to the Vine BTW

Snadger · #14 (**permalink**) 13-12-2006, 08:25 PM

...................surley that should be Preying bloody Manti Snadger

The preferred pluralization is mantids, though there is some usage of mantes or mantises.

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