Grow Your Own Magazine

Hello everyone,

I've got an area that is about 15' wide and 26' long. I've planned to do some veg in it and have cleared and prepared it. However, him indoors has taken one look at it and said I'll never produce enough to last a month and that its more effort than it's worth. He say's that "real gardeners" don't use the bed system and have rows - like his dad did on his veg plot - and only those with acres to spare have the luxury of pretty little beds. Now he is not normally so critical but is giving up smoking so is worse than any bear with a sore head!

I'm new to veggie gardening but have tried to research and the bed system looks good. I'm not sure how this spacing or intercropping works so am relying heavily on forums such as this. I have tried to find local allotments to take a look at and have a chat with people there but am struggling.

My questions are - albeit long-winded, would I be better doing rows? Is my plot too small? Is DH right?

Here is a link to my plans to give you a better understanding.

Blimey you're lucky to have a plot that big! Welcome to the vine!

I started this year (my first) dividing my plot into four beds - it worked ok, but the only thing I would tell you to watch out for is to include paths/gaps to get in between beds - I didn't and trampled a load of veg inadvertently.

I'm trying rows and lots of tubs next year.....

I would advise that you do a quick sketch at some point too, just to remind you later on where everything is - this will help you to decide where to put stuff next year ie don't put brassicas back in the same spot etc.

Keep us posted on how you do! And as for the OH, imagine how smug you'll be next year when you put his dinner in front of him and 80% of it came out of the garden!

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Live for something or die for nothing

Hi,

Welcome to the vine, I am sure you will get lots of replies to this and mixed views!

I do both, my potatoes etc go staight into the ground but I have added two small raised beds this year and love them! Much easier to work with no standing on anything I shouldn't and they look tidy

The cost of making them could be off putting, I used old railway type sleepers and then filled with compost and left enough space to walk around each.

Good luck and let us know how you get on, Mandy

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No mater when time you set out, you always get there at the same time

Hi and welcome to the vine.

I grow at the back of my garden and I am slowly beating back the brambles and nettles to get places I can plant in. I would recommend Dr Hessayon's Vegetable and Herb Expert as a good book to help you get started - not too expensive and clear and easy explanations.

As previously mentioned, if you are making beds, remember to leave pathways to walk on or the soil gets rather compacted.

Good luck with it and even if you get one meal worth of veg it is all worthwhile! (well its enough to please me).

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Happy Gardening,
Shirley

http://www.honeyjukes.co.uk

Hi there
I couldn't get your link to load, but 15 x 26' sounds to me enough room to get plenty out of. I think it's worth growing things to eat if you only have a window box!

Keeping things in beds makes it easier to manage the rotation and get about between your crops without having to stand on the soil and compact it. You want the beds to be wide enough to maximise growing space, but narrow enough that you can lean across them for access. Within the beds, you'll grow things in rows as that makes is easier to identify what's your plants and what's weeds.

You'll find threads about specific planting plans on here and there'll be no shortage of advice from other members

welcome to the vine,
and welcome to an ongoing debate that has no real answer as every person does it slightly diffrent, i myself prefer beds for ease of planning and weeding and the addition of compost / manure for the crop rotation. As to losing space by putting beds in that is another question ;
beds have paths between them so space is lost but due to the deep soil the plants can be put closer together so gaining more plants in the area.
rows on the other hand have paths both sides that are smaller but require digging more often and much more wasted space between plants and more bending down.

with the plot you have you could put in 4 beds 15' by 4' so giving you the perfect plan for crop rotation and plant fruit trees / bushes along the north end so not casting shadows on to your beds.
the only thing i long row is potatoes as it's a little easier than putting them in beds but you have not got enough room to grow enough for the year.
think of the plot in 3d and plant things up supports ( ie cucumbers ) that takes very little ground space but gives a good harvest and intersowing gives good results as two crops in the same space.
if you have a greenhouse start things of in pots an just use the garden to bring them to maturity so the space is alway productive.
If none of that has made any sence then just ask yourself who is going to be out in the cold doing the winter digging if you go for the long rows when beds don't need touching.

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---) CARL (----
ILFRACOMBE
NORTH DEVON

a seed planted today makes a meal tomorrow!

www.freewebs.com/carlseawolf

now in blog form ! UPDATED 01 / 04 / 08

Hello Twinsane and welcome to the Vine.

Hope you are getting the answers you need to your questions. I'm sure there will be others along too, to give you advice. I do a bit of both actually, but then I've got quite alot of space.

Good luck and keep us posted as to how you get on.

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~
Aerodynamically the bumblebee shouldn't be able to fly, but the bumblebee doesn't know that so it goes on flying anyway.
~ Mary Kay Ash

Hi.

OOh - that's about the same area as our patch; here's what we have done.
We rotavated the lot back in April.
We used wood to create 5 square beds; these are about 4 foot square each [probably a llittle larger than i can reach if truth be told]. the design that we used means that we have space for borders in some parts of the garden, which the OH is in charge of. Inbetween all this, we put black covering down, and put wood bark down.
All the raised beds have a mix of the soil and homemade compost, and I crop rotate.
I get more veg from my crops than the guy next door, who has a garden twice the length of mine, but uses the row system. You waste so much on rows, but i intercrop and use all of my soil year round. If there is any left vacant, it gets either onions or lettuce [you can grow lettuce through the winter if you have the right types], and as the soil is alot more friable and so you can move stuff much more easily if you need to.
If i was to have the full garden, I could easily make another 3 or 4 beds and I would put 2 each year over to potatoes, and rotate the rest around that.
We only got the house in April, and after the massive amount of work setting it up, it is very little hassle, as the beds mean that the weeds are minimal [really only bindweed from next door's rows, and dandelion root from the rotvating]. Plus, you can sieve one bed a year for the carrots, which means less forked carrots and more to eat.
intercropping really means growing stuff together for a reason, ie i grow coriander with my carrots to precent carrot fly; sweetcorn courgettes and beans grow well together as they use different space to grow - i would add a few root crops in there to take up the space below. It's like a mini jigsaw puzzle, and if you think ahead you always have something to pop in once another crop has finished.
Even with the rubbish year we have had, i have onions, chives, garlic, jalapenos, next spring's brocolli/calabrese, this year's brocolli and calabrese and cabbage, sweetcorn, lettuce, late beans and peas, tomatillos, carrots, leeks, swede, and the last courgettes and a few toms [that didn't get blighted], all still cropping and growing; plus loads of herbs. We have next year's bedding plants just coming up, plus moer brassicas and other veg that we will overwinter and plant ot inthe spring.
We eat our own veg nearly every day and have done so since mid may , when the first beans and peas [started indoors in pots] started coming true.
The secret with beds over rows is continual sowing and more than one variety, so that the season is longer. i have no greenhouse, just a large covered frame [well, not that big to be honest] - all this is grown outside. Your plot looks fine, are you going to build the sides up? - i recommend it as it keeps the soil warmer and helps when bending over.
i don't like to say that someone is wrong, but beds are for real gardeners if that suits them - my neighbours who have farmed local land, and their own veg plots for years; all come over and ask me about this and that, and are very enthusiastic about my methods; but i am just very tight with space and need to cram stuff in where i can - it doesn't always work but the space you have got is ample for veg, if you grow what you like to eat. Plus Carl's comment about the digging is so true...

Good luck.

I've looked at your plans, and they look absolutely fine to me as long as you don't want to grow enough spuds to last the entire winter etc? They are plenty big enough for most crops. The planting distances in beds can be a bit closer than in traditional row planting, so you do fit more into a smaller space. Also row planting means properly digging over the ground every winter, because you keep walking on it and compacting the soil. Beds are also slightly more attractive (IMO)!! Think it might be ok to ignore the OH at present, until he hits reasonable-ness (2 weeks or so?!) and crack on with your plans! BTW, when his dad was growing in rows, it's possible he was also spraying every pest in sight with something noxious, and feeding the ground with chemical fertilisers - it's what they did back then; are you supposed to copy that too ??!!

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Sarah

“Tell me one last thing,” said Harry. “Is this real? Or has this been happening inside my head?”
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?”

Welcome to the vine, you've come to the right place. People here are always keen to help out whenever they can.

Sorry, do you mean you have access to 15' by 26' area for just vegetable patch or is the existing garden size. If it's the former, it is MASSIVE! My single raised bed in comparison is only 3' by 13' .

Also think about how many people you intend to feed? Okay if you go for many beds (4-5) because you have the space to spare, would you be prepared to do the extra work of freezing any surplus veggies (remembering you need big/extra freezer) or are you like me, preferring to 'eat as you go' type of person when they're in season?

Having said that, certain type of veggie stores well (in terms of few months) as winter vegetables (think winter squash, pumpkin, marrow, swede etc) when there's little else growing. Then you'd need to consider vegetables (think leeks, parnips) which may take a longer growing periods from March right towards Christmas. I sure won't be able to grow much if these type of veggies hogged my bed for that long .

I think you'll have to explore the veg growing experience gradually, you'll learn along the way safe in the knowledge that the forum is here to keep you reasonally well guided...hopefully. I'm learning about growing vegetables that I have not even grown before but intend to do so next year so that I know how to be 'roughly prepared'...hopefully.

I pretty much agree with Carlseawolf with the above. I'm definitely a big bed fan myself. But PLEASE, make sure each bed is not over 4 feet wide and that you have access on both sides. You'll find earlier threads on 'Raised Beds'. Footpath between beds, you can leave the gap as lawn (wide enough for your lawn mower) or as gravel path or whatever takes your fancy. I'm sure your DH will warm to the idea once he starts eating fresh home grown veggies that is good for the purse too.

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Food for Free

Hi and welcome! This is my first year growing and I've only used beds and pots and was really surprised at the size of the crops I've been able to get from a small space. I will definitely be sticking with beds next year. Go for it, the best way is the way that suits you personally IMO, there doesnt seem to be any right or wrong way. And most importantly, enjoy!

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Life may not be the party we hoped for but since we're here we might as well dance

Rows are an innefficient use of the land if you are going for as big a total weight of crop as possible!
Beds enable you to block plant at staggered stations giving you a bigger crop from the same area!

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My Majesty made for him a garden anew in order
to present to him vegetables and all beautiful flowers.- Offerings of Thutmose III to Amon-Ra (1500 BCE)

Hi Twinsane welcome to the vine.

I use the bed system and agree with everything said before especially the no digging. Shirl recommends Dr Hessayon's book, I picked one up from ASDA whilst on holiday in Cornwall and it was half the RRP, might be worth checking out.

NN

Hi Twinsane and a warm welcome
I love my raised beds and agree with all the other positive comments. I have a bad back so the fact I can sit on the path to do the planting and weeding is a huge bonus for me. And once they're dug that's it, a good forking over with a hand fork from then on. And good too for different environments, some beds can be meshed over to keep out insects, others can be fleeced to keep warm and others plastic to create a mini greenhouse giving you a far wider growing range in a small space.
I'm still growing potatoes in tubs though, still seems to be quite a bit of wireworm as my allotment is recovered couch grass and I've had a fantastic crop from them so that's worthwhile too.
Sue

Wow thanks everyone! I'm so glad I asked! I was really doubting myself for a while. After all the work I've put in over the last couple of months (you can see it on the webpage) it's nice to have support here! My back already hates me and my hands will never be the same again. I had DH's father saying today that he can't see how it will be as good as rows and I did try to explain about the reduced planting distances and lack of soil compression etc but I'm banging my head on the wall until I come up with the goods. Anyway, I'm sticking with my beds. I hope I can prove that it works

Yes I eventually want to put sleepers or similar around the beds but I'm trying to keep the cost down so doing everything one step at a time. The cheapest local sleepers I can get are £22 each! My beds are 8x4 so that's expensive. Someone suggested I ring around scaffolding companies for old boards; I might try that.

I'm looking at patio and hanging basket seeds to extend the places I can grow too. I also am lucky to have the greenhouse but am clueless as to how to use it to it's full potential. As with everything, I'll learn by listening to others(or reading here ), reading books/mags and by experience.

I've recently bought Dr Hessayon's book off Ebay, amongst a ton more, and was gutted to find it cheaper in ASDA (£4) so if anyone doesn't have it - head to ASDA!

Again, thank you all. If I'm not actively posting, I will definitely be lurking around - when I'm in the house that is...

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My Garden

Keep and eye on the 'What I did Today' thread. It's a great reminder of when to sow seeds, to plant out, how to make use of your greenhouse. I find it very handy. Better than a book!

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Earth laughs in flowers. Ralph Waldo Emerson

www.vegheaven.blogspot.com

Updated November 30th - Mr Stinky's Excellent Adventure (and a Christmas Cake)

Hi and welcome Twinsane. I agree with everyone else here, i do like raised beds but i will be leaving three areas for potatoes, for crop rotation. I'm not sure i like the idea of spuds in raised beds, taking into account on the space you have, this may not be a viable way for you to do things. But raised beds is good

Exactly what i was going to say, but Snadger said it more succinctly.

To further increase your planting space, you could use the keyhole bed system, basically you have your bed as normal but instead of a path, you have a keyhole-shaped path up the middle. From it you can reach all areas of the bed for weeding, planting etc.

I have a b@$tardi$ed version of this, using concrete stepping stones instead of paths - to increase planting opportunities.

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