Moving Fruit Trees

**veggiechicken** · 28-09-2017, 07:28 PM

Hello 4Shoes and welcome to the Forum.
A couple of questions first - what rootstock are the trees on and how large are they now?

**4Shoes** · 28-09-2017, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by veggiechicken View Post

Hello 4Shoes and welcome to the Forum.
A couple of questions first - what rootstock are the trees on and how large are they now?

5 are on MM106, fairly big trees. The original Fruit Tree is 3 - 4 m dia and remaining trees are smaller and don't know the stock.

Planning to go to M26, allowing more smaller trees - easier to harvest.

**veggiechicken** · 28-09-2017, 07:44 PM

I don't have any advice for you, sorry, but I asked the questions because I'm sure the answers will help those do know something.

**Guest** · 28-09-2017, 07:57 PM

Have I read that right? The original tree is 3-4 m(etres) dia(meter)

(Sorry but I will ignore that bit for my following response

)

I love playing with grafts and rootstocks so would say go for it. However I would have thought 4 year old trees on MM106 would move fairly easily. Make sure they are dormant and take as big a rootball as possible.

What are the varietie/s? (just wondering how bum nippy I would be about moving them)

Edit: is it possible to post pics please? I ideally would not want smaller stock than MM106 for freestanding trees. Where abouts are you and what is your soil like?

**4Shoes** · 28-09-2017, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by Norfolkgrey View Post

Have I read that right? The original tree is 3-4 m(etres) dia(meter)

Norfolkgrey ..Sorry for the confusion

The reason I planted the trees where they are now was because there is an old Apple Tree. It would be a pollination partner for the "new trees". It has also cropped better with the new trees in place. So I have 11 apple trees. can try to move the readily available smaller trees.

The trees are now cropping, so thinking is to let them grow and start an new orchard in the middle of the field and plant pollination attracting plants.

I expect the real question is do : -
Option 1
Buy 5 x M26 root stock
Grow one on for additional root stock / stool bed for the following
Graft one each of my largest 4 trees and then repeat the following year

Option 2
Buy 5, grow on 3 for stool beds and test the grafting process with 2 trees this year?
Then have more material to start the real task the following year.

Supplemental question
How many root stock plants would you expect to get from an M26 stool bed?

**Guest** · 29-09-2017, 04:25 AM

For the sake of a 2 year project I would just buy the rootstocks rather than rely on growing my own. You are only looking at 1-2 pound per rootstock. I tried to grow rootstocks and it was a bit of a failure.

**nickdub** · 29-09-2017, 07:39 AM

I agree with NG - just get the number of rootstocks you need for grafting and go from there. If you can get the rootstocks delivered in the Spring so much the better, as its easier to graft/bud them on a bench before planting.

You'll probably get some suckers off the roots in the future, if you want a few more stocks you can just dig them up or layer them for extras - that's what I do anyway.

**Lardman** · 29-09-2017, 09:24 AM

My mm106 & m26 stool beds are coming out this year. I've not managed more than 3 usable stocks off them each in any one season. It's easier to buy them in and the quality is better. If a tree suckers I'll use it but in my opinion the stool beds aren't worth it small scale. You'd need to plant 2018, allow it to grow, cut down 2019 so you'd be grafting in spring 2020 - life's too short.

If you want to graft new trees, buy some stocks (I've bought from 3 one suppliers very mixed quality) and bench graft the lot spring 2018 and plant them out job done. If you're worried about getting them right graft twice as many as you need and keep the backup sets in pots.

You'll save around �14 per tree grafting it yourself, but it will take 2 years to get to the same position as buying a new one. What were they ? perhaps we can find a supplier who carries them.

**4Shoes** · 29-09-2017, 12:43 PM

Thanks to all who have helped.

I have to agree, when you consider the time to grow stools, it makes sense to graft as many of the Scottish Heritage varieties as I as I can this year. Any that do not take I can grow on as backup material

The Scottish Apple Trees are:
Rock - Culinary Green - Mid Season
Warden - Desert Red and Sweet - Late Season
Weight - Culinary Red - Late Season
(Looked a several "Scottish Tree" suppliers, but not listed

)

Also have a Bloody Ploughman - Fairly Common Scottish Tree, and several other heritage apple trees

These were all picked because of the wet and windy western climate.
So it looks
1. Graft 5 varieties (Scottish and mature tree), 2 or each
2. Move remaining 5 smaller trees
3. Replace any failures following year

**Kirk** · 29-09-2017, 05:12 PM

Rock, Warden and Weight are all listed by the NFC _ National Fruit Collection - who last I knew will graft any of the many thousands fof apple varieties on to any rootstock you require.

National Fruit Collection

The other place to ask is Keepers Nursery, who may be close to the NFC and so may be able to help.

**4Shoes** · 29-09-2017, 10:03 PM

Kirk - Its good to know that the NFC do that.

One of the reasons for preserving the trees is that they are getting rare.

Can't control what the people after me do, but an established garden takes more time to change.

Given that NFC have the same time window for this year, I'm going to try the grafting thing, learn new skills and only once I have a viable replacements will I remove the original material.

Gardening is all about being optimistic

I've got the time to make slower changes.

Rare breed chickens for the orchard and to clean up the veg garden are next on the list.
Or was that the bird friendly hedge

More Spring projects I'm thinking.

Again thanks to all.

**nickdub** · 01-10-2017, 10:01 AM

Good luck with all that - sounds like you a workable plan now - BTW if you do some budding as well as grafting, you can bud the same stock in multiple places so that if one fails to take, you have a back-up to ensure no loss of time.

**4Shoes** · 01-10-2017, 08:17 PM

Thanks for the hint nickdub

So once you have your root stock..

The theory is..

Take Cuttings (scion) late Feb / March whilst tree is still dormant. Wrap in moist news paper, bag and put in fridge.

Bench Graft cuttings just before root stock buds ready to open (April / May)

Bud graft Jun / July

May have bitten off more than I can chew, but will let you know how I get on.

**nickdub** · 01-10-2017, 08:30 PM

Sounds about right - the dates aren't super critical and seasons very in warmth etc - eg you can do budding as soon as you have some reasonably well grown shoots with leaves on your scions regardless of the date.

The critical bit on grafting is to get the cambium layers aligned accurately and to keep them that way while the graft takes. I use wet raffia for tying up, but am just an amateur myself, so I expect to have a number of failures to go with the successes and try to plan accordingly.

No reason BTW that you can't plant your root-stocks in pots if they get delivered early - then you can put them pot and all on the bench - being able to see what you are doing and working accurately is the key - a second pair of hands if you can find a helper is a useful thing too sometimes, as they can steady and help tie when you have stuff lined up and are holding it just right.

A lot of the book methods are written for and by professionals, when "time is money" is the main consideration.

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