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  • Manure Problems

    I am new to veg gardening and I am following a No Dig approach. I purchased an 8 ton load of well rotted horse manure which was an awful lot of hard work to barrow to the end of my garden. My first question to the supplier was "does it contain wood chip" and I was told no.

    I have created raised beds of manure applied 6" deep.

    I sowed into modules and planted out healthy seedlings, but results are very dissapointing.

    Peas - died,
    Onions, Shallots, both yellowing extensively
    Coriander, died
    Dill, looking poorly.
    Beetroot, extensive yellowing
    Rocket, yellowing and some red in the leaves.
    Spinach, maintained green and grew well initially but new growth stunted badly.
    Broad Beans, grew ok first of all but new growth curling and bottom leaves yellowing.
    Lettuce, some very good and some stunted.
    Parsnips looking ok ish but one or two starting to yellow.
    Celeriac looking OK.
    Potatoes looking OK
    Flower Sprouts looking OK.

    The manure is collected from various livery stables and mixed together so there will not be consistency.

    My first research suggested Aminopyralid Herbicide present in the Manure. I have been in contact with Dow Chemicals (who produce AP herbicide) and sent them extensive images of the damaged plants, and they say that this is not the problem.

    I now realise that there is Wood Chip in the manure. Research tells me that Wood Chip can deplete Nitrogen significantly, so one solution which I am considering before undertaking the demoralising task of replacing 8 tons of manure, is adding Nitrogen while the wood chip continues to rot away, but I guess there is also the possibility that there may be toxins in the wood chip?

    If anyone has successfully used manure containing wood chip in a similar way I would be most interested to hear about it.

  • #2
    It may still be too rich. When I use it in a bed situation I top it with several inches of mcp.

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    • #3
      I think NG's right. It's also hard work, but I would have dug it in to make it a little less concentrated. Well rotted can mean different things to different people and certainly the stables I worked in would have had no qualms about saying the fairly fresh heap was well rotted because it'd been there for a couple of months, whereas gardeners mean an awful lot longer.

      Unless it's nearly all chippings I wouldn't worry too much about the nitrogen depletion. If the manure's still very fresh (nutrient-speaking) there will be a lot of nitrogen in there from the horse pee.

      Potatoes like lots of food, so are probably deliriously happy - I bet squashes would take off in those beds too!
      http://mudandgluts.com - growing fruit and veg in suburbia

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      • #4
        Any pics of the Manure Mark?............... just want to see how rotted it is.
        sigpic“Gorillas are very intelligent, but they don't have to be as delicate as chimps -- they can just smash open the termite nest,”
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        • #5
          A few woodchips won't hurt!
          In fact...if the manure is too rich they probably help.

          Here is what I would do (not an expert, just someone who makes mistakes a lot and so is good at fixing them)
          I would go get a big bag of compost.
          Spend an afternoon digging out a plant, bunging compost in the hole, replanting the plant, water in.
          Spread the rest of the compost between the plants and sort of stir it in a bit with a hand fork.

          I'd get any herbs out of there and into pots because they tend not to like rich soils at all.
          Start off more peas...there's still time.

          You must be feeling a bit gutted...after all that work you deserved for it to be plain sailing! But I reckon with a few adjustments it will still turn turn out okay so don't lose heart!
          http://goneplotterin.blogspot.co.uk/

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          • #6
            Not sure it is an issue with would chip, I can see

            imbalanced nutrients supply and

            you should have planted through black plastic or weed membrane to hold moisture and control the weeds. when it is undug, and top layered with lot of manure at this time of year means, it needs lots of watering as it is both hard to go through the the actual soil undeneth the menure , and menure layer gets dry very fast makes plants strugggle for both water and nutrients.


            Solution:

            1. at this stage, you can not blend menure layer and top soil underneth. but you can make few holes in gaps and mix as much which can hold the water better.

            2. plants that are getting yoellowing, water them frequently
            3. Plants that are died, it is good chance to dig in , and soften the toplayer.

            No dig approach means you mulch well before you actually plant things. when you mulch and plant at the same time, you need to dig the holes at planting stations instead to planting on the top mulched menure or compost.

            When you have to do weeding in no dugbeds, it is better to snip the weed growth off thant to pull them off . so that you do not disturb the top layer and aerate it to give chance the surrounding weed shoots come up quickly.
            Last edited by Elfeda; 29-05-2016, 03:24 PM. Reason: corrected 'No dig approach doesn't means'' to 'No dig approach means'

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            • #7
              Can you post some photos of the broad beans and a couple of other veg you're concerned about?
              They'll give us a better idea of your problem.

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              • #8
                Mmmmm! Agree with others comments! I'd personally not want to put my nurtured "Babie's" in a full bed of manure! Far, far too concentrated as "Sparrow" said!

                "Quick Fix"

                Don't think there is one!

                If it were me! Hard work I know! But I'd be very keen on taking at least 50% of the manure out & incorporating a lot of either top-soil, home made compost or at least MPC just to water it down so to speak!
                "Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"

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                • #9
                  I'd be inclined to agree with pretty much everyone that's posted so far!...

                  It sounds like it isn't rotted enough to plant into.

                  I can see two possible fixes if you're hoping to get produce this year...

                  1- time machine, head back to Sept/Oct 2015.. buy theanutr and spread it..

                  2- if no access to a time machine... Dig like fury!

                  Blend it into your ground, or add mpc and/or soil to 'dilute ' the manure..
                  <*}}}>< Jonathan ><{{{*>

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                  • #10
                    Thank you all for your input.
                    I must say that I am committed to the No Dig principle. I was on a day course last year at a small market garden where they have employed the No Dig principle with 100% well rotted manure for the last 30 years and the results are FANTASTIC! Very few weeds and best of all no hard work digging. They have constant trial beds with No Dig and Dig side by side to test the yields and the No Dig orten gives marginally increased yields.

                    With that in mind I just have to sort the issue with my Manure.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bigmallly View Post
                      Any pics of the Manure Mark?............... just want to see how rotted it is.
                      Thanks for your reply.
                      Attached Files

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by veggiechicken View Post
                        Can you post some photos of the broad beans and a couple of other veg you're concerned about?
                        They'll give us a better idea of your problem.
                        As you can see the Beetroot is yellowing as are the Broad Beans. Spinach is showing stunted growth.
                        Attached Files

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                        • #13
                          Plantmark, had a look at your veggies - bet you're gutted as they look fine specimens!

                          I'm not an expert, but in my opinion they look a little 'scorched' >>> I think you know by comments already posted, that it all points to the manure being too rich, not rotted enough...

                          What they said before about adding mpc/topsoil/garden compost, I think is really your solution ....

                          See what the experts think when they pop along soon ...
                          ~~~ Gardening is medicine that does not need
                          a prescription ... And with no limit on dosage.
                          - Author Unknown ~~~

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                          • #14
                            IMO the manure still looks a bit new. When it is really well rotted it looks like very black soil.
                            Gardening requires a lot of water - most of it in the form of perspiration. Lou Erickson, critic and poet

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                            • #15
                              This shows a variation in Lettuce within a small area.
                              Attached Files

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