Raspberry canes - how many & are eBay canes ok...?

I've tried and failed with many different raspberries over the years in my difficult soil (it's drought-prone, shallow, infertile and with an alkaline pH) and Autumn Bliss (and their yellow relative: Allgold) are by far the best performers and require no feeding or watering despite summer drought being a big problem three years out of four here.
Several years ago I planted some Autumn Bliss around the base of a M25 apple tree (very vigorous; makes apple trees of the largest size) but the raspberries were so strong that they outcompeted the tree and it "runted-out", unable to find enough water and nutrients because the raspberries were quicker to grab them (I had to "rescue" the tree; one winter I dug it out and moved it elsewhere).

Others apparently find that Autumn Bliss are no more vigorous than other raspberries, but it could easily be a soil and climate difference which makes them perform so well for me. Just like lots of people love the apple MM106 rootstock for making big trees but it doesn't do well here in the dry alkaline soil (barely half the size it's supposed to be), yet the supposedly-only-slightly-more-vigorous MM111 rootstock grows normally, proving that soil and climate can hugely affect the result you get.

Both Autumn Bliss and Allgold have very high transplant success for me (nine or ten out of ten will survive) and grow large and fast; reaching 6-8ft tall in one season with no feeding or watering. These autumn-fruiting types, when planted in winter, will give a reasonable crop the following summer; the "instant gratification" that most people seek.

Even in my horrible soil, within two years of planting about five canes of Autumn Bliss, they will then be producing a couple of buckets full of raspberries. So many raspberries that bird losses can be ignored and netting is not required.
In their early years they perform best when all canes are cut down to the ground in mid-winter - I'll be doing mine very soon. The winter pruning invigorates them and gets them established quickly. After a few years you can leave half the canes unpruned each winter; those unpruned older canes will fruit in early summer along with the maincrop raspberries, while the new shoots will fruit in late summer and autumn as is normal for autumn fruiting raspberries.

Most other raspberry varieties I've tried (many of which are praised highly in catalogues) have suffered from low transplant success and slow growth - with only the odd fruit being produced, which are mostly taken by the birds.

I've always bought my canes from reputable sources, so I don't expect virus diseases to be the cause of poor establishment with those raspberries that failed.

Personally I would not buy cheap because it seems quite common for cheap plants to be those that were offloaded from nurseries as being substandard or where they may have been mislabelled. But if you just want the cheapest raspberries possible regardless of variety then cheap is probably OK.
Mislabelling of cheap plants is common. However, some of the full-price nurseries seem to think that when they don't have what you ask for that it's OK to send out something else but with a label for what you ordered - e.g. I once ordered a Worcester Pearmain and a Tydeman's Early Worcester but despite the labels being what I asked for, the trees turned out to be exactly the same; two Tydeman's Early Worcester.

Buying from non-professional sources carries the risk of the plants being infected with viruses or other diseases.

I would agree with FB about buying quality canes. Having said that, have you tried asking around at your site for spare canes. Bet someone have some to rehome.
My RHS fruit book suggests spacing them at 18"/45cm. So for 5m you'll need 10-15 canes. Ken Muir's site has 5 Autumn Bliss for £13.60. Have a look at Blackmoor too. They have 10 for £13. Will be postage on top too.

My autumn canes came from T&M as a postage only cover offer in GYO a couple of years back,you never know with a bit of luck the offer may come around again

Early in the bare-root season prices will usually be at full mark-up, with the growers and nurseries gradually lowering prices after the new year when they start to see what's surplus, followed by much larger discounting as the bare root season comes to an end around March or April depending on the weather.
I noticed that Keepers made their first discounts to their fruit trees in the autumn when they realised that the long cold winter last year (East and SouthEast England was still full-on winter well into April, which is very unusual) and that it was going to result in a lot of smaller-than-normal two-year-old trees.

So those seeking bargains are best to wait as long as possible, but be aware that what they hope to grab at a low price might sell out sooner and at a price higher than they wanted to pay.

I bought raspberry canes off grower on ebay. I purchased 10 but 15 turned up. cant remember off hand variety but they were scottish. Glen Amble i think. Excellent quality and made a good 17 ft row of summer earlys. had tjem 3 yrs now

I bought some Polka autumn fruiting raspberry plants from Blackmoor Nursery and was very impressed. At £17.70 with delivery, that's only £1.77 per plant.

As these will last many years as well as letting me produce new plants if required, this is a great price.

Of course, pot plants will be more expensive, so get your bare rooted plants ordered asap.

I tried canes from ebay and from known nurseries. The ebay and homebase ones all died. The ones bought from Blackmoor have survived and are on their third year.

Jo, I recently visited the garden centre at Brighton Racecourse and found they're now selling raspberry canes half price so works out 5 canes for just under £5. They also had other soft fruit on offer. Not sure what they'd be like.

Regards

Ant

You guys are awesome! For a newbie, this really has helped clarify quite a few things. Basically, you get what you pay for... but if you risk it then you've only yourself to blame!

Think I'll check out the local garden centre (thanks Ant!) and blackmoor, as I've seen blackmoor mentioned a couple of times now and my general rule is if you hear it more than twice then it tends to be the way to go!

Thanks again, really do appreciate the help!

Just another quick question... sorry!

I'm looking on my local garden centres website and it lists raspberries in terms of litres? What does that mean? Is that the same as canes or different? I'm sooo confused!!!

Litres would be the pot size the canes are in. Doesn't help you, or anyone really, as you want to know the number of canes. Hopefully more than one to a pot.

Fruit bushes, including raspberries can be sold and planted at any time of year, if they are sold in pots. The size (1 litre, etc) I would imagine is the pot size.

Bare rooted plants are much cheaper, but can only be planted in the dormant season, ie winter / early spring)

Just making sure .. are you aware of the difference between summer and autumn rasps ?

Their names tell only half the story.

Autumn raspberries fruit in the autumn (the easy bit to understand) but they also do ALL their growing in the same year.

T'other type, grow one year, then flower and fruit the following.

Autumn types are therefore much easier

Ebay is a gamble. Don't!.

Buy from a reputable grower- at least if they go mammaries up you have come back.

Penny wise and pound foolish.. and a long gestation period= take care and only buy from reputable people. When you have some established you can take risks. But starting off and getting it wrong = a year's delay and more money..And no rasps to pick until 2016...

I've now removed my autumn bliss as the 3 potted plants I put in 2 years ago were taking over a bit, sending up runners 3-4ft away, which isn't what I wanted in that position, but you may find that okay for a hedge!

Glen Coe (summer, purple raspberries) is completely different. Forms a nice controlled clump. I get 2 canes a year, no runners anywhere else and each cane goes up 9ft and half way down so hopeful of a nice crop next year. Would recommend this variety, but not sure how suitable it would be for a hedge, and don't know where its available barefoot.