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  • Why you don't need horsemuck

    In the UK, it is 'common knowledge' that you need to use horsemuck, or you won't grow any vegetables.

    However, other countries have grown their own food for centuries, without horsemuck. How can that be?

    I'm not saying "don't use it" ~ I'm saying you don't have to use it. There are alternatives. There must be, or how would forests grow? How would wild blackberries, sloes & crab apples grow?

    So why not?
    - Horsemuck is widely thought to be a good fertiliser, but it isn't. It's lower in nutrients than almost any other manure, and even comfrey contains more potash. It does add humus, but so does garden compost & leafmould

    - Pathogens such as E. coli and salmonella can exist in manure

    - horse don't digest weed seeds, so they pass through & germinate in your garden. Esp. docks. On the other hand, green manures suppress weeds

    - manure can contain aminopyralid, which will kill your crops

    - "Scientific evidence appears to show that it is possible for some plants to accumulate antibiotics from soil amended with animal manures"

    - vegans won't want to use any animal product, including manure

    - there aren't many horses or farms in our cities, so most UK people don't have ready access to manure, nor the means to transport it (do you want horse poop in your newly-valeted city runaround?). Horses used to be much more common pre-car, and that was a lot of muck to be gotten rid of. We seem to have grasped the other end of the stick now: rather than having a waste product to somehow dispose of, we are seeking out someone else's waste product because we think 'that's how it's always been done'.

    - the cost of fuel necessary to transport tons of animal manure is high, compared to the fuel needed to transport a packet of green manure seed

    - excessive application pollutes rivers & seas, leading to algal blooms and oxygen depletion, yet gardeners think they can never add enough

    - farm animals produce a lot of greenhouse gases. Animal farts don't feed bees, but green manures do

    - allotments are not farms. Farmers have a different set of problems to the home gardener: they have land too large to hand-weed; they have large quantities of stock poop to get rid of; they have large expensive machinery to make use of; they have to grow what the market demands

    - Looking at the bigger picture, animals use huge amounts of resources, even if you do use their meat & manure: 65% of UK cereal crops go to feed animals, not humans. They need water, fences, transport, vet attention, certificates.

    so what about chicken pellets?

    If your chicken manure pellets aren't organically sourced, you'll be supporting, albeit indirectly, the caging of hens. Chicken pellets are high in nitrogen, and are on the alkaline side.

    sources

    Alpaca Manure - Secluded Wood Alpacas

    The Poop on Manure - West Coast Seeds

    Manure Management - Soil Manager

    further reading

    - Green manures have all the benefits of FYM without the problems — they add nitrogen and organic matter to your soil to improve soil fertility and structure, and the deep-rooted ones aerate the soil

    - The One-Straw Revolution

    - humanure

    - liquid gold: free abundant nitrogen feed

    - What & Why Stockfree

    - Elm Farm stock-free green manure trials

    - comfrey

    - Sepp Holzer
    Last edited by Two_Sheds; 01-11-2013, 09:04 AM.
    All gardeners know better than other gardeners." -- Chinese Proverb.

  • #2
    Very concise; I've copied it and put it in 'archived growing techniques' for future reference.

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    • #3
      That's a very interesting overview Twosheds.

      I'm a green manure convert, and would add that another big advantage is the cost. I don't have access to free muck, and bags of Farmyard manure from garden centres cost an absolute fortune. However 50 square metres of soil can be covered with green manure for around £3 worth of seeds (and the following year harvest the seeds, so it's free).

      I guess the bottom line is, do green manures work? In my experience, they very definitely do. I've just finished harvesting my maincrop potatoes, which had been 'manured' with phacelia, followed by a few comfrey leaves and nothing else. The harvest is fabulous, no disease or scab, with some of the potatoes weighing in around 3 lbs. To me, that's enough proof that the soil doesn't need muck.

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      • #4
        I was told years ago to leave horse manure alone and just use cow manure as the equine version is loaded with weed seeds and is not capable of carrying the same nutrients, so it seems that granddad was spot on... but does that mean covering the veg patch in slurry?, my veg patch has been in use since before the first war and the elderly lady next door says that when she was young the then owner put about 3ins of cow or horse manure onto the patch each autumn, from the 30s to the late 60s,the topsoil is about 3ft to 3ft 6ins deep depending on what part of the patch you might use...its a crumbly black loam and the parsnips have to be seen to be believed but never early enough for the local show.. and when the roots hit the gravelly subsoil they just go sharply horizontal. I might try some 3ft long pipes set into the soil, about 6ins across, next year to see what lengths they will grow to, just for my own interest, and extra roast nips......
        Last edited by BUFFS; 01-11-2013, 01:11 PM.

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        • #5
          manure has very little fertilizer value .... it is mainly used as a soil conditioner and compost does the exact same thing without the nasties...

          for soil conditioning, I prefer vermicompost but suppose it depends on how much is needed as it is pricey if bought (I pay £8 for 10kg)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by BUFFS View Post
            but does that mean covering the veg patch in slurry?,
            My mum lives in the country and when I'm down there and take the dog for a walk I always take a couple of extra bags and if I get the chance I pick up a couple of pats or even some sheep droppings which I add to my ongoing "slurry soup" on the allotment which I use as a feed. Nettles and comfrey go in too - smells lovely

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            • #7
              But if no-one wants the manure off the farmer what are they going to do with it?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Plot10 View Post
                My mum lives in the country and when I'm down there and take the dog for a walk I always take a couple of extra bags and if I get the chance I pick up a couple of pats or even some sheep droppings which I add to my ongoing "slurry soup" on the allotment which I use as a feed. Nettles and comfrey go in too - smells lovely
                You're going to get a scolding in a moment.
                However for any new gardeners reading this there is another view. So for the sake of balance….

                http://www.livingspace360.com/index....e-manure-7733/

                gardenguides.com/86782-benefits-horse-manure-composting.html

                Is horse manure good for garden fertilizer? | eHow UK

                and I like this one
                Manure Matters: How Manures Measure Up

                However if you want to be absolutely sure that your manure is free from the chemicals they use to spray weeds in grassland try to find out if the farmer uses weedkiller before he sells it to you. If you think he may not be telling the truth have a look at his land. If it is weedy they you are safe to use what comes out of the back end of his animals. If it is pristine then avoid. If you don't know then the risk is slight but it is a risk you take. I've been using manure for over 17 years and never had a problem.
                Last edited by Four Seasons; 01-11-2013, 03:47 PM.

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                • #9
                  The other problem with horse manure is that stables get cleaned out very regularly so the manure contains a high proportion of straw or shavings, thats ok but your paying manure price for shavings or straw. Cattle on the other hand often live on the very manure they make, farmers just cover it with straw. You could say it is an animal hot bed in fact, the straw and manure rot down even before its cleaned out by the farmer.
                  photo album of my garden in my profile http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...my+garden.html

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bill HH View Post
                    The other problem with horse manure is that stables get cleaned out very regularly so the manure contains a high proportion of straw or shavings, thats ok but your paying manure price for shavings or straw. Cattle on the other hand often live on the very manure they make, farmers just cover it with straw. You could say it is an animal hot bed in fact, the straw and manure rot down even before its cleaned out by the farmer.
                    I hear what you are saying Bill. I've tried both but the trouble with cow muck is that it can go rock hard when it dries out and takes a devil of a job to saturate again. That's why they can build dung houses out of it that withstand the elements. A horse manure house would just collapse around your ears. Bit like this forum really. (It was a joke everybody!)

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                    • #11
                      2 Sheds made the point very clear she was not saying don't use manure but giving folks an insight to the alternatives.

                      I have used hoss muck since I was very young. Well not used it but I was sent out after Shipstone's drays with a bucket and dustpan to gather up any droppings for use on the rose bed. There was great competition for it back in those days, so you had to be there when it dropped shall we say.

                      Growing in containers precludes me from using green manures but I can see the advantages if you have a plot, particularly weed suppression.

                      Potty
                      Potty by name Potty by nature.

                      By appointment of VeggieChicken Member of the Nutters club.


                      We hang petty thieves and appoint great ones to public office.

                      Aesop 620BC-560BC

                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Of course it is an alternative if you garden on a small scale and there is nothing wrong with it. Some of my plants get nothing but compost every year because they don't need the high nitrogen rush that manure gives. But it was a heck of a manifesto and needed some balance….for the sake of newbies.
                        Last edited by Four Seasons; 01-11-2013, 04:44 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Four Seasons
                          (But then I'd ban you)
                          Eh??

                          I think if you can get it easily and cheaply, then unless it's contaminated it's only going to do the soil good. But, our usual source seems to have gone all flaky on us and can't be bothered.

                          I didn't muck at all (on one of our plots) this year but I did use chicken pellets and FBB. I was talking to our plot veteran a few weeks back about quitting manure and just making do with compost and weed mulch. He said he was thinking of doing the same. He then pointed at some weeds that were providing ground cover and asked if I was getting rid - 'mulch' was my reply and he pretty much said he was doing the same and letting the weeds do their thing and provide ground cover.

                          He's actually quite open minded for an 'old boy' and was quite proud of himself last year when he told me he'd planted some comfrey plants to use as tomato fertilizer "I've gone organic" he announced - he hasn't bless him - he still uses pesticides but you never know, one day...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by zazen999
                            We get it all the time...during all school hols.

                            Anyway - back on topic. Any more detailed scientific research for us? Perhaps the My Little Pony website has something you could share?
                            Very witty. I'll see if I can find something 'funky' for you as it's your word.

                            Effectiveness of Farmyard Manure, Poultry Manure and Nitrogen for Corn (Zea mays L.) Productivity | Tasneem Khaliq - Academia.edu
                            Last edited by Four Seasons; 01-11-2013, 06:03 PM.

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