Advice needed please

**Mikey** · 17-09-2013, 12:26 PM

Can't answer that one personally, but as I read the other day runner beans are a perennial plant you could dig up the root and store it as you would dahlia bulbs and replant it next spring. The plant would remain true to type if not the beans.

**Two_Sheds** · 17-09-2013, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by Four Seasons View Post

what would happen if I planted F1 hybrid runner beans next to non F1 runner beans.

"Runner bean ...are much more likely to cross with other varieties grown nearby than french beans. Ideally, to be sure that no crossing takes place, seed crops of runner bean should be at least 1/2 a mile away from any other varieties of runner bean"
How To Save Your Own Seed at Home

**Penellype** · 17-09-2013, 01:02 PM

F1 hybrids will not produce seed that is true to type. They are a specific cross between 2 different varieties and need careful breeding. That's why F1 seed is so expensive.

I've never heard of replanting old bean plants, but it sounds worth a try.

**Four Seasons** · 17-09-2013, 01:30 PM

I'm not bothered with saving the F1 seed. It's the non F1 seed I am interested in saving and whether the F1 pollen would contaminate the pure strain. Thanks for your reply.

**Four Seasons** · 17-09-2013, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by Mikey View Post

Can't answer that one personally, but as I read the other day runner beans are a perennial plant you could dig up the root and store it as you would dahlia bulbs and replant it next spring. The plant would remain true to type if not the beans.

I like this idea a lot. Do you have a link to the information at all? If the plant remains true to type then the beans must do as well surely because the pollen won't affect the roots? I never thought of runner beans being perennial. I wonder why it's not more common to save the roots because sowing the seed every spring is a bit hit and miss. Has anyone on this forum done this? Thanks for taking the time to reply.

**veggiechicken** · 17-09-2013, 01:42 PM

Hello Four Seasons and welcome. Have a read of this http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/hsl/...nner_beans.php
I haven't tried overwintering them yet, but plan to move some into the greenhouse this year as an experiment.

**chris** · 17-09-2013, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by Four Seasons View Post

I'm not bothered with saving the F1 seed. It's the non F1 seed I am interested in saving and whether the F1 pollen would contaminate the pure strain. Thanks for your reply.

If you don't attempt to save the rootball as above, then you'd either need to isolate, or try a self-pollinating strain. Moonlight or Firestorm are two types I'm aware of, however there's always the chance that cross pollination could occur. With beans though, if the beans are different colours - it's often easy to "weed out" ones that are not true, as they don't look the same.

I'm growing out a cross now between two french beans (which are self pollinating - Blue and Hewitt cross... ) but when podding the dried beans I noticed one bean that was completely different to the hewitts - and looked like a splash of blue (purple) where the hewitt's would normally normally be a lovely mottled/tortoise brown.

Anyway, point being that despite french beans pollinating themselves, if growing them in reasonable close proximity of another type then there's always the chance of XP.

**Four Seasons** · 17-09-2013, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by veggiechicken View Post

Hello Four Seasons and welcome. Have a read of this http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/hsl/...nner_beans.php
I haven't tried overwintering them yet, but plan to move some into the greenhouse this year as an experiment.

That was a very informative read. I am a bit wiser now. Thank you for the link.

**Four Seasons** · 17-09-2013, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by chris View Post

If you don't attempt to save the rootball as above, then you'd either need to isolate, or try a self-pollinating strain. Moonlight or Firestorm are two types I'm aware of, however there's always the chance that cross pollination could occur. With beans though, if the beans are different colours - it's often easy to "weed out" ones that are not true, as they don't look the same.

I'm growing out a cross now between two french beans (which are self pollinating - Blue and Hewitt cross... ) but when podding the dried beans I noticed one bean that was completely different to the hewitts - and looked like a splash of blue (purple) where the hewitt's would normally normally be a lovely mottled/tortoise brown.

Anyway, point being that despite french beans pollinating themselves, if growing them in reasonable close proximity of another type then there's always the chance of XP.

That all sounds very interesting but a little too complicated for my brain I'm afraid.

For your information I like butter beans but cannot grow them where I garden in Lincolnshire so I was looking around for an alternative and came across a runner bean called Gigantes which is as large as a broad bean and you eat the bean only and not the pod and because it is a runner bean it means I can also grow broad beans without any risk of cross pollination.

The trouble is I like to eat the pods of runner beans as well so I am going to have to grow the Gigantes pure strain next to some standard runner beans and harvest them both.
I would have liked to save the seeds from the Gigantes for further sowings as they are a pure strain but it doesn't look like they will stay true with an F1 neighbour.
I'll try saving the roots of the Gigantes and experiment. Thanks for your reply.

**chris** · 17-09-2013, 02:35 PM

You can let any runner bean pod grow, dry and then use them as butter beans.. Gigantes are large beans yes, but myself and others use white-seeded runners (I'm growing: White Lady) for their beans only.

Once you soak them, you can take the 'skin' off them and just use the two segments (cotyledons) inside, as you would tinned butter beans.

But to cut my point above short - and summarise what everyone else has said: runner beans will cross, they're very promiscuous

So either dug up the roots, or grow a single type (ideally self pollinating) if you want to preserve the strain (save seed to grow the same beans / characteristics again next year).

Your gigantes - if they have crossed, when you save the seed you may find smaller beans in the pod - these, won't be true to type.

**Kirk** · 17-09-2013, 02:41 PM

I think that you have to assume that the result will not be true. For some reason I think that even if F1 pollinated F1 then the result may not be F1, it would be close but not identical in all respects. The same with the non-F1, the result is not going to be a 100% match to the parents.

An F1 is that because of dominance traits and that cannot be guaranteed other then once, which is the seed you bought.

**veggiechicken** · 17-09-2013, 02:42 PM

Are the Gigantes from Realseeds? Runner Bean Seed

**Four Seasons** · 17-09-2013, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by veggiechicken View Post

Are the Gigantes from Realseeds? Runner Bean Seed

Yes they are. I don't intend to dry them, rather just put them strait into a soup and freeze the soup for later. I don't like frozen runner beans or broad beans for that matter but when you freeze beans in soup they are very acceptable.

**hamamelis** · 17-09-2013, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Kirk View Post

I think that you have to assume that the result will not be true. For some reason I think that even if F1 pollinated F1 then the result may not be F1, it would be close but not identical in all respects. The same with the non-F1, the result is not going to be a 100% match to the parents.

An F1 is that because of dominance traits and that cannot be guaranteed other then once, which is the seed you bought.

*ahem* (biology hat on)
F1 means 'first generation' (first after some event- in this case, after a cross), so if you bred from two F1 plants, that would properly be called F2- second generation.

F2 plants may look really nothing like their F1 parents, and will likely be extremely varied. Some may look more like their grandparents, or something weird and unpredictable- only a very few may be fairly well like the F1 generation.

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