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  • #1

    wet back garden

    Hi all, this forum was recommended to me as the best place to get a proffessional advice so here it goes:
    just moved to my new place and back garden is in bad shape. the builder left the subsoil very compacted with approx 20-50 cm of fairly topsoil and a bit of grass seeds. the result is that the top soil took shape of mixture of mud and clay, as the water cannot drain through compacted soil. there seem to be enormous amount of stones - very small ones on the very surface of the ground and smallish to large in the soil, which makes it difficult to dig. you cant see water creating puddles in the garden, but when you step on it you can see how wet it is - your feet start to sink a bit and it's difficult to walk around the garden. my plan is to keep couple of chickens and have few raised beds for veg. my biggest concern is the health of chickens as they cannot be kept on the ground which is constantly wet/damp. i'm looking for a diy solution as i cant afford hiring a gardener to do the job for me (heard from a man who was quoted €3000 for french drains in a similar size garden). i had few different ideas how to deal with the problem but seems like i cant find definite answer. any advice on how can i get rid of excess water in my garden will be highly appreciated. thanks
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  • #2
    Hi Tsuzmir, Welcome to the Vine. We're not professionals (well some are, but in their own fields). That garden looks exactly like my daughter's did when she moved into her house some 12 years ago. You have my sympathy.

    Clay with flints, and probably a lot of builder's rubble buried underneath a shallow layer of topsoil.

    You don't say whereabouts you are but your quote in euros makes me think Ireland.

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    • #3
      Is that a new build? If so, get the builder back and demand you get a decent covering of topsoil.

      The grass looks to me as though there has been an element of flooding after the seed was put down and raked in. I would expect to have to redo that if one of my customers complained but it's not the time of year for putting down grass seed.

      If you end up having to reseed yourself, go over the whole area with a garden fork, push it in to the ground as far as you can and work it around to create holes in the ground of approx 0.5 -0.75 diameter. Then thrown down grass seed followed by good stone free topsoil. Brush the topsoil in to the holes and then pray for decent weather.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by rustylady View Post

        You don't say whereabouts you are but your quote in euros makes me think Ireland.


        yep, im just outside Dublin, Ireland.
        Last edited by tsuzmir; 04-01-2013, 11:41 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Aberdeenplotter View Post
          Is that a new build? If so, get the builder back and demand you get a decent covering of topsoil.
          i might be wrong but i think the topsoil is not a problem. i was thinking when it gets better it'd bet a tiller and a tonne of good quality topsoil and mix it through anyway. but i reckon (again, i might be wrong, just trying to have a good guess) it's a compacted subsoil that is causing a problem. would that be right? and if so, what would be a cure for that?

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          • #6
            I'm judging the topsoil by the number of stones showing. if you are convinced it is the subsoil that is the problem, then you need to get down and dirty and break it up a bit. That may even involve using a pick axe

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            • #7
              If you're wanting to grow veg, then the only answer is going to be double-digging. That basically entails digging a trench one spade deep and putting that soil in a barrow or on a tarpaulin, then digging and loosening the subsoil underneath, then move along and turn the topsoil from the next strip into the first trench, digging and loosening the subsoil again, moving onto the next strip, until you get to the end, then tip your saved topsoil into the last trench. Then step back a few paces and start again. It's really, really hard work, but it's going to be the best way to get your garden in order imho. You can also incorporate some sand or grit into the subsoil to improve drainage if you can get any, and compost or manure into the soil where you'll be growing veggies.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by SarzWix View Post
                If you're wanting to grow veg, then the only answer is going to be double-digging. That basically entails digging a trench one spade deep and putting that soil in a barrow or on a tarpaulin, then digging and loosening the subsoil underneath, then move along and turn the topsoil from the next strip into the first trench, digging and loosening the subsoil again, moving onto the next strip, until you get to the end, then tip your saved topsoil into the last trench. Then step back a few paces and start again. It's really, really hard work, but it's going to be the best way to get your garden in order imho. You can also incorporate some sand or grit into the subsoil to improve drainage if you can get any, and compost or manure into the soil where you'll be growing veggies.
                sounds like a plan! i've just learned that at the end of the garden where you can see a line of gravel they put a drainage pipe that's conected to rain drainage system. the pipe is approx 2 foot deep, so i'm thinking i'll do the double digging job as described above and let the water run to drainage pipe. how's that?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Aberdeenplotter View Post
                  I'm judging the topsoil by the number of stones showing. if you are convinced it is the subsoil that is the problem, then you need to get down and dirty and break it up a bit. That may even involve using a pick axe
                  what if i mix 1 tonne of good quality topsoil with it? do you think that will be fine or should i get rid of the top soil i have and put new one?

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                  • #10
                    I'd be tempted to dig down 18" to see what's going on beneath the soil surface before you decide to add top soil.

                    A ton of soil is only about one cubic meter- it won't go far. ( I say about because the weight is obviously more if the soil is wet)
                    "Nicos, Queen of Gooooogle" and... GYO's own Miss Marple

                    Location....Normandy France

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                    • #11
                      Tsuzmir, what do you intend to make of your garden? Lawn, veg plot, flower borders, or what? This will have a bearing on what you need to do to it.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tsuzmir View Post
                        what if i mix 1 tonne of good quality topsoil with it? do you think that will be fine or should i get rid of the top soil i have and put new one?
                        Absolutely pointless removing what you have in my opinion, you need to be improving it.

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                        • #13
                          I agree with Nicos I would not buy any soil or anything else until I had dug down a couple of feet and found out for sure what I am dealing with.

                          If thats a new build there could be anything under there from brick to discarded damp proof membrane.

                          Potty
                          Last edited by Potstubsdustbins; 04-01-2013, 09:22 PM.
                          Potty by name Potty by nature.

                          By appointment of VeggieChicken Member of the Nutters club.


                          We hang petty thieves and appoint great ones to public office.

                          Aesop 620BC-560BC

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tsuzmir View Post
                            back garden is in bad shape.... 20-50 cm of fairly topsoil
                            I'd say that's a pretty GOOD amount of topsoil

                            Originally posted by tsuzmir View Post
                            the water cannot drain through compacted soil... when you step on it you can see how wet it is - your feet start to sink a bit
                            If it was really compacted, you wouldn't sink though: it's loose soil that sinks under your feet, as your weight presses it down.

                            Where's your sun? I mean, which way is north?
                            Your garden looks very shady, but that could be down to it being winter.

                            It's been a very wet year, of course, and even my (sandy) soil is squelchy at the moment. I would suggest you wait until April before you decide on a course of action.
                            You don't have puddles: therefore I think the "problem" might resolve itself when the sun comes back.

                            If you were to look at my lawn today, you'd probably conclude that it's poor draining and compacted. It's not, it's just winter.

                            Originally posted by tsuzmir View Post
                            yep, im just outside Dublin, Ireland.
                            Be a pet, put that into your profile
                            All gardeners know better than other gardeners." -- Chinese Proverb.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rustylady View Post
                              Tsuzmir, what do you intend to make of your garden? Lawn, veg plot, flower borders, or what? This will have a bearing on what you need to do to it.
                              What I want is nice dry lawn, so chickens can happily and healthy live there (i'd be moving them around in order to let grass grow back) and I'll go for raised beds for veg.

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