hybrid V heirloom

**zazen999** · 29-01-2012, 01:23 PM

We're all hybrids

It's just they sell F1 Hybrids that are designed for one purpose, which is usually uniformity and cropping time. Not much mention of taste...

I do grow the odd F1; a yellow courgette here and there but most of my veg is open pollinated/heritage/saved by someone who isn't in it to make profits.

But if that's what people want to grow, then that's their look out. It helps them win awards [big deal] when what I want is a lengthy harvest that tastes good.

**muslimgrower** · 29-01-2012, 01:24 PM

its the big companies aswell, have you noticed ??

T@G, suttons, unwins, marshall, the smaller sites online not as much i have noticed......

**muslimgrower** · 29-01-2012, 01:25 PM

Poeple usually follow trends though and usually grow whats on offer and if you just have a catoluge of just hybrid seeds , people will just buy them all the time !!!!

**muslimgrower** · 29-01-2012, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by zazen999 View Post

We're all hybrids

.

very true..

but most of us are not seedles

**RedThorn** · 29-01-2012, 01:31 PM

Each to their own, I grow only one F1 regularly and I think it's the same one as Z, personally I am just to stingy to waste money on F1's and I like the idea of keeping the older varieties alive especially in light of the big companies trying to squash them. Also they tend to crop more at a rate I can use them

**perkin** · 29-01-2012, 01:33 PM

Of course the seed companies are actively promoting F1 seeds - they ensure that the average gardener has to keep coming back year on year to buy more seeds as if you save seed from an F1 variety, it either won't stay true to type or it might even be sterile. F1 seeds offer reliable germination, uniform fruit production, predictable growth timings and rates, heavy cropping and disease resistance - and that's what a lot of veg growers want. F1 seeds are usually more expensive to buy as they're expensive to produce - crossing lineages through at least 4 generations to produce the required characteristics.
Having said that, I try to avoid them where I can because I like growing more unusual varieties and like the idea of growing a variety that's been around for ages and trying to save the seeds myself. I don't grow veg to save money so if something fails to crop, then I'll just go to the local farmers' market - so the less reliable nature of some heirloom varieties doesn't bother me.

Horses for courses I guess.

**Aberdeenplotter** · 29-01-2012, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by perkin View Post

. F1 seeds offer reliable germination, uniform fruit production, predictable growth timings and rates, heavy cropping and disease resistance - and that's what a lot of veg growers want.

yes that pretty well sums it up. Not much point in taking seed from a product that won't deliver what you want and a return for the work and expense we put into growing is surely a pre-requisite. The plant breeders are also developing new strains which are resistant to pests and diseases which also pleases the grower. A happy grower is a customer who will return to buy more meaning the seed sources are sufficiently profitable to supply us for yet another season.

**zazen999** · 29-01-2012, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by Aberdeenplotter View Post

yes that pretty well sums it up. Not much point in taking seed from a product that won't deliver what you want and a return for the work and expense we put into growing is surely a pre-requisite. The plant breeders are also developing new strains which are resistant to pests and diseases which also pleases the grower. A happy grower is a customer who will return to buy more meaning the seed sources are sufficiently profitable to supply us for yet another season.

But who wants all their courgettes all at the same time? And once a new pest or disease comes along, because we don't save from it, it doesn't adapt [usually we would save from those plants less affected so that next year, chances are there is inbuilt immunity]. After all, heirlooms do deliver or there wouldn't be any plant material left to experiment on to get F1s in the first place.

**muslimgrower** · 29-01-2012, 02:39 PM

mankind has been saving seeds since the neo-lithic age... we have done ok so far with seeds we have .......

**Helgalush** · 29-01-2012, 03:31 PM

When I was very new to vegetable growing, I didnt really understand what F1 meant or about hybridisation. Since then I have learnt a little bit about it and now I prefer to try not to use F1s, but sometimes F1s are handy. When I first typed this out I said that I avoided F1s as much as I could, then realised that wasn't really true, its just that ideally I would try to get non-F1s where practical to do so.

**Thelma Sanders** · 29-01-2012, 04:07 PM

Each to their own

Just cos it's new doesn't make it a bad thing, you know!
Even Heritage stuff was hybridised at some stage, or we wouldn't have all the varieties we do have, so why shouldn't the process contnue?

In my opinion there are F1 varieties that are worth buying/growing....ask the many people who grow Sungold tomatoes if they think they are worth growing

I agree we should make sure to save the old varieties by seed saving, but only if they are worth saving, not just because they are old. I've tried heritage veg, especially tomatoes, and some of them weren't any good at all in my soil/conditions

I've tried others and had great results.

I'd just say - grow what suits your tastebuds, conditions and pocket - whether it's old or new, F1 or open pollinated. There is no right or wrong, just personal choice

**Alison** · 29-01-2012, 04:14 PM

I've grown F1s and open pollinated over the years with not all the latter being heirloom varieties. On the whole I'd much rather grow varieties that suit my soil and geogrphy and have adaptwed over a number of years by me selecting the best plants for seed saving. I do grow an F1 calabrase and cucumber as I've not found varieties that suits me as well but that is about it. Certainly yet to see any benefot in germination etc on F1s and find although lots of varieties are on offer the diffwrence is often minimal and many times lacks the beauty and flavour of older types but the only seed company I'm aware of which encourages saving is Real Seeds with all the others hoping you'll buy more even of simple stuff like peas.

**muslimgrower** · 29-01-2012, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Thelma Sanders View Post

Each to their own

Even Heritage stuff was hybridised at some stage, or we wouldn't have all the varieties we do have, so why shouldn't the process contnue?

but the seeds were still viable !?

In my opinion there are F1 varieties that are worth buying/growing....ask the many people who grow Sungold tomatoes if they think they are worth growing

I agree we should make sure to save the old varieties by seed saving, but only if they are worth saving, not just because they are old. I've tried heritage veg, especially tomatoes, and some of them weren't any good at all in my soil/conditions

I've tried others and had great results.

I'd just say - grow what suits your tastebuds, conditions and pocket - whether it's old or new, F1 or open pollinated. There is no right or wrong, just personal choice

its worth it for commerical growers.. but i have noticed a huge rise in hybrid seeds in the 3rd world too, you go to any garden center in asia and you will see racks of seeds that are all hybrid, there is no choice out there !!! its either you buy the hybrids or seriousley go to some farm and get some from a farmer without a seed pack, just a few seeds in the palm of your hands with no name and no instructions or sowing dates,

**Alison** · 29-01-2012, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by muslimgrower View Post

but i have noticed a huge rise in hybrid seeds in the 3rd world too, you go to any garden center in asia and you will see racks of seeds that are all hybrid, there is no choice out there !!! its either you buy the hybrids or seriousley go to some farm and get some from a farmer without a seed pack, just a few seeds in the palm of your hands with no name and no instructions or sowing dates,

Now that is a far more serious thing, don't get me started on what the likes of Monsanto have done.....

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