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  • Cox's apple tree

    The wife planted a Cox's apple tree in the garden, it sits in a semi sunny/sheltered spot, and was planted in good compost with a couple of good handfulls of Vitax bonemeal fertilizer, and its got good growth all around the top, with plenty leaves, we want to allow it to develop a good top, but there is some small branches growing out right down the bottom of the main trunk, but the pup has been chewing on them and they haven't grown anything, when would be the best time to prune these off, and is there anything special we'll need to do if and when we do take these branches off.

  • #2
    Sounds like a summer pruning opportunity to me. Might be an idea to stick a tree guard around the stem/trunk if the dog is going to use the tree as a bone.

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    • #3
      How long have you had the tree? Have you been following a regulalr spray routine?
      I'm curious because some of our Scottish members have been complaining about heavy rainfall, which would increase the occurence of disease.
      Given Cox's susceptibility to wet-weather diseases, I'm amazed that a Cox's tree could even grow - let alone survive - in Scotland.

      Removal of the branches may be best done as soon as possible. However, if your climate is wet (and therefore lots of canker tendency), it may be better to wait until winter (when canker is not active).
      But if the tree is thriving without any attention, it may be OK to remove the dead bits now.

      I must say, though, that I'm astounded that Cox can be healthy and productive in Scotland.
      .

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      • #4
        The wife says the pup has now given up on biting the tree, but the damage is done, as hopefully, you'll see, it gets fed weekly, the tree that is, as for its age, we've only had it since the beginning of March, when there was nothing on it, but we've got a good covering of leaves at the top, which I spray with very slight soapy water solution a couple of times a week, to keep the bugs at bay, it seems to work, but now for the $64,000 question, can we ever expect to see some fruit on it.

        Attached Files

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        • #5
          Muncher

          I don't doubt that your Cox will fruit at some point - maybe next year.

          But....

          Cox can be a weak and sickly tree in many locations because it is so widely grown.
          It is fairly susceptible to (and you should be watchful):

          Canker (made worse by high rainfall)
          Scab (made worse by high rainfall)
          Mildew (made worse by low rainfall, dry soil, infertile soil, warm temperatures and high humidity)
          Bitter pit (made worse by too much nitrogen fertiliser and/or inadequate calcium)

          I posted many disease pictures thoughout the chatter on the following > link <
          which may help you to identify the early signs of trouble and act promptly.
          The pictures get better further down the thread (I gradually got to grips with the camera!).

          On the importance of not allowing canker to establish on susceptible varieties:
          My parents-in-law have a middle-aged Lord Lambourne tree and as they are getting older, they don't care for it as much as they once did. Sadly, I noticed in recent weeks that the lack of attention has allowed just a few areas of disease to gradually spread and now major cankers have become established; killing some of the main branches and now spreading to the trunk. The tree is clearly in decline and looks likely to die, despite being a full standard and only about 30 years old.
          .

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          • #6
            Thanks FB. your info was very useful, as was the web page link, the soil that the tree is in is very sandy, but as I said, she dug a really deep hole and put down plenty of good quality compost and feed, and there is also plenty of stones in the soil, so drainage will probably be good, she does get rather carried away with watering and feeding though, so I'll get her to cut back a bit, thanks again.

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            • #7
              As a matter of information it looks from the photograph that your apple tree is on a dwarf rootstock (because branches have grow from the trunk near the bottom). If this is the case your tree will remain small and grow pretty slowly. Just as well as it is so near the house wall.

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              • #8
                rana

                Yes, it's probably on a dwarf or semi-dwarf rootstock, although even vigorous rootstocks will produce branches all the way down to the ground at the nursery, but these are often trimmed away before being sold.
                The amount of branching, the closeness of branch junctions, the age at which they fruit, and other features of the growth habit has as much to do with the variety than with the rootstock.
                I have a 2-3yr Laxton's Epicure on the mighty M25 rootstock and it has branches all the way down to 1ft above ground, it is also carrying a medium crop or excellent size and quality apples, and the upper shoots have added a couple of feet of new growth this year. In other words, despite the apparently strong rootstock, it is vigorous, well-branched and productive of good quality fruit at a young age.
                No tree on a weaker rootstock would be able to do that in anything other than the most fertile soils.

                In fact, the sheer power in the roots allows it to both grow well and carry a crop while most dwarfs are still slowly growing a strong enough root system before fruiting can begin.
                Strong roots are the best way to guarantee a good quality, early and heavy crop - as long as a suitably low-vigour variety is chosen to go on those roots. Dwarfs take far too long to get their slow-growing roots established, in my view.

                Pairing strong roots with a well-branched and compact variety is the optimum combination, in my view.
                I would rather have a strong rootstock with a compact variety because it is the roots which are needed to find the all-important water and nutrients as-and-when the tree needs them.
                Rootstock strength is generally proportional to the lifespan of the tree.
                Even if strong roots can't resist a disease, they can often outgrow it. I've seen similar with Blenheim Orange apple trees; they don't have resistance to canker, but they are so strong that they literally grow-over and wall-off the canker.


                Here's another picture, of a 2-3yr old Court Pendu Plat on the very vigorous M25 rootstock. It is about 4-5ft tall.
                Despite the very strong roots, the variety is very well-branched down to about 1ft above ground. Many of those side branches will be removed this winter, but I could retain them if I wanted a low-growing bushy tree, much like the wild apple bushes growing along the sides of motorways.

                Last edited by FB.; 18-07-2011, 06:19 PM.
                .

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by rana View Post
                  Just as well as it is so near the house wall.
                  General guidelines are that apple tree roots spread just slightly further than the canopy above them, with a thickness about half that of the branches at that distance from its base.

                  Pears and cherries spread about twice as far as the canopy and their roots can be about as thick as the branches.

                  Roots as thick as a pencil touching a house wall/foundation are unlikely to do much harm.
                  However, in subsidence-prone areas, the changes in soil moisture of a big tree can add to subsidence problems. Willow trees in particular are very water-hungry, while fruit trees are not particularly water-hungry in comparison.

                  These general guidelines will vary with soil type and rainfall. Shallower soil or lower rainfall can double the size of the root system, while deep soil and plentiful rainfall can reduce the need for such a large root system.

                  Curiously, just as different apple varieties have different tree shapes above ground - such as James Grieve and Golden Delicious being very spreading and Egremont Russet and Edward VII being quite upright - it also happens that different varieties have different root structures.
                  While I can't comment for Cox's because I consider it too risky to grow, I've noted the following varieties with unusual root systems:

                  D'Arcy Spice grows a massive root system with a tiny tree (tiny for its age) on top - and is why it is such a tough tree, with all those roots and only a small, compact, slow-growing, low-demand tree on top.
                  All that root power allows it to tolerate punishing conditions where most other apples will die. It also means exceptional anchorage and not easily blown over.
                  Court Pendu Plat, Crawley Beauty, Norfolk Beefing, Bountiful also are notable for quite big root systems - in my experience.
                  On the other hand, varieties that I've noted to often have unusually small root systems:
                  Annie Elizabeth, Howgate Wonder, Hambledon Deux Ans, Scrumptious. This is evern more remarkable, give that the first three are supposed to be above-average sized trees, yet seem to have below-average sized root systems. They are not nearly as happy in poor soil.
                  Last edited by FB.; 18-07-2011, 06:39 PM.
                  .

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                  • #10
                    My Cox's apple is full of fruit this year here in NE England. Hope the fruit don't succumb to any nasties before they are ready for picking. Just a bare rooted Aldi bush grown as part of a cordon along my allotment fence and now on its second year after planting. Onward and diagonally sideward I hope!
                    My Majesty made for him a garden anew in order
                    to present to him vegetables and all beautiful flowers.- Offerings of Thutmose III to Amon-Ra (1500 BCE)

                    Diversify & prosper


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                    • #11
                      Can we see a pic please snadger?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rana View Post
                        Just as well as it is so near the house wall.
                        I never intended that the branches would get near the house, and with all this advice, I'll take the required steps, or rather the wife will, to prune back the branches and keep the tree growing towards the garden area

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tattie-muncher View Post
                          I never intended that the branches would get near the house, and with all this advice, I'll take the required steps, or rather the wife will, to prune back the branches and keep the tree growing towards the garden area
                          You will generally find that walls and buildings create dry areas of soil due to blocking rainfall from at least one direction and also from roof overhangs. Roots will only grow into damp soil, so roots may be deterred from growing towards a building. However, if the tree becomes very large, it will still send roots under the building - and it is the massive trees with their ground-heaving roots and water-depleting-leading-to-subsidence which need to be watched.
                          Additionally, most apple tree roots are only in the topsoil, which is typically a couple of feet deep. Foundations of buildings can go several feet deep and therefore block root progress.

                          You'll probably find that your apple tree roots naturally grow into the garden and it will be the side of the tree with most favourable root conditions which grows the fastest; apple tree roots are mostly connected to the xylem and phloem (sapflow vessels) on the same side of the tree. Only in severe situations does significant transfer take place from one side of the tree to the other.
                          .

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