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  • Is it just me or is this wrong?

    I normally try and stay on the lighter side of life, as befits my Life of Brian lifestyle, but this one is a touch heavy. If you mods feel its over the top then please feel free to edit/remove as necessary, I would understand. And if you non-mods dont wish to read me venting my spleen, then please stop now.

    As some of you will know, I travel about the world a fair bit with my job, and see a lot of different things.
    I try, wherever possible to involve myself as much as possible in local life wherever I am, as I feel that I will learn much more of local cultures and beliefs by doing so. Whilst I may comment on other cultures, I almost never criticise, for they are exactly that, other cultures, not my own.

    Since arriving in Pakistan, I have noticed on an almost daily basis, reports in the newspapers of under age girls being sold/traded for marriage. To me this seems abhorrent, but I do understand it is a tradition here, and a way of life.
    Yesterday evening, on the way back from the office, I had just crossed a river, and was smiling at a group of youngsters leaping into the river and laughing and joking, happy with life, under the eyes of their mums, who were washing clothes.
    Not 2 minutes later, we slowed down to observe a wedding procession leaving a building, and I saw the groom, bedecked in his finery, looking very smart if a touch young, but I couldnt see the bride anywhere.
    It was only when I asked one of the locals, that he pointed out that the girl that I had mistaken for a bridesmaid, was in fact the bride. She was 8 years old!!!!!!!!!!
    I looked at her, and her little face was petrified, she didnt have a clue what was going on, poor little kid. I was then told that she had been traded by her father to settle a family dispute.

    I understand that different countries have differing values, and I have seen a lot of things that I havent agreed with, but not one that has made me as angry as this.
    I have 2 daughters, and I remember them both being 8 years of age, and I know for a fact that they couldnt possibly have got married, or even understood the concept of a boyfriend at such a young age.
    Surely wrong??
    Bob Leponge
    Life's disappointments are so much harder to take if you don't know any swear words.

  • #2
    I think a lot of wrong-doing and nastiness hides behind a veil of "religion" and "culture".
    A simple dude trying to grow veg. http://haywayne.blogspot.com/

    BLOG UPDATED! http://haywayne.blogspot.com/2012/01...ar-demand.html 30/01/2012

    Practise makes us a little better, it doesn't make us perfect.


    What would Vedder do?

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    • #3
      Definitely wrong. We have to allow something for different cultures in making moral judgements - arranged marriages are ok by me, for example, provided the bride and groom are both adults and reasonably well-matched, and agree to it (there is even a case to be made for them, as against our Western way of choosing our own marriage partners) - but forced marriage, and child marriage, are both wrong: and since a child marriage will almost certainly be forced, it's doubly wrong.
      Tour of my back garden mini-orchard.

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      • #4
        I will echo what Wayne says.

        However, much the same went on in the past within our own 'great' families with babies married off for family politics and to strengthen ties with other countries.
        Happy Gardening,
        Shirley

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        • #5
          Its a bit early for me to comment with any degree of sense but I agree with StephenH. I do know of some adult arranged marriages that have worked really well. The bartering of women and girls to solve disputes or alleviate financial constraints however is just wrong. Of course it is traditional, so was witch burning here, doesnt make it right!

          Dont get me started on patriarchal societies or male dominance or we could be here all day! Many parts of India and Pakistan now outlaw this practise but there is a long way to go yet
          Last edited by FionaH; 02-07-2009, 07:32 AM.
          WPC F Hobbit, Shire police

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          • #6
            I could be wrong.....

            ....years ago, I either read something or saw something on tv about this subject, and I hope I've remembered properly.

            If I'm right these marriages aren't consumated until the girl reaches an age of sexual maturity. Of course, who decides what the right age is I have no idea. Up until that age, if the law (religious law, I think rather than governmental) is upheld the poor girl is a complete slave to the groom & in-laws.

            As I said, I could be completely wrong. Either way, I think it's truly awful and most definitely wrong.

            Jules
            Jules

            Coffee. Garden. Coffee. Does a good morning need anything else?

            ♥ Nutter in a Million & Royal Nutter by Appointment to HRH VC ♥

            Althoughts - The New Blog (updated with bridges)

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            • #7
              OH so wrong, poor kids. Even if its only to be a slave its still wrong.
              Gardening ..... begins with daybreak
              and ends with backache

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              • #8
                Right or wrong is a value judgement and that is driven by your own culture. Judging other people from a very different culture is a dangerous path to tread - very many people have died as a result.
                Having very many Asian friends, I have known and do know people who have married "for love", or had arranged or "forced" marriages. There is good and bad in all of them - one UK-born, totally westernised girl in her early twenties was entirely happy with an arranged marriage to someone she had met just a couple of times and the last time we met she was still very happy with her life.
                As for the driving force behind the arrangements, they are 99.99% cultural, but often get labelled religious. Certainly the Q'rahn FORBIDS forced marriage, although it does regard consenting arranged marriage as best practice and marriage without parental consent as very highly undesirable.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by shirlthegirl43 View Post
                  I will echo what Wayne says.

                  However, much the same went on in the past within our own 'great' families with babies married off for family politics and to strengthen ties with other countries.
                  Yeah, but they normally had the option of saying 'No' when old enough to take part in the ceremony, which was not binding until they WERE of such age (of course there was pressure, from emotional blackmail upwards, but none of them would have been killed for disagreeing). Above all, we learned better!
                  What is 'wrong' about it is the concept that females are property owned by their menfolk (and, to a lesser extent, that children are property owned by their parents).
                  Last edited by Hilary B; 02-07-2009, 08:18 AM.
                  Flowers come in too many colours to see the world in black-and-white.

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                  • #10
                    Seems it's going on here too, or at least they're sending kids from here.

                    BBC NEWS | UK | Forced marriage plea to schools
                    Urban Escape Blog

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                    • #11
                      I have no issues whatsoever with arranged marriages, its outwith my own culture, but that doesnt mean to say that I have no idea of such things.
                      I am not judging people from another culture, and precisely because of that reason, I said nothing at the event yesterday. I feel that the act of marrying an 8 year old girl off, to repay a family debt is quite simply wrong. Irrespective of colour race or religion, an 8 year old is a child.
                      Bob Leponge
                      Life's disappointments are so much harder to take if you don't know any swear words.

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                      • #12
                        Jasvinder Sanghera of Karma Nirvana, a national campaign group against forced marriages, urged public sector workers, and particularly teachers, to act on suspicions.

                        "This is not something you must be culturally sensitive about," she said. "This is a child abuse issue, and you must treat it in that way and follow your child protection procedures. Do not turn a blind eye".

                        ..."I should make it absolutely clear there is no culture and there is no religion in which forced marriage should be acceptable or indeed is acceptable," he added.

                        "I know there are maybe some people who think this is an issue about Islam - it's not. Islam does not recommend or accept forced marriage. Marriage in every religion has to be freely and openly consented to".
                        Is the marriage of children a common thing in Britain, oops sorry, Pakistan?
                        To see a world in a grain of sand
                        And a heaven in a wild flower

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                        • #13
                          I agree with you Bob,
                          A child is a child regardless of the culture and this is just plain wrong!

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                          • #14
                            She must have been scared out of her wits, poor little thing. As has been said before, regardless of race or religion or geographical location, these are little girls and its abuse.

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                            • #15
                              my feeling is that, just because it may be a 'traditional' way of resolving matters for certain individuals, in certain circumstances, - it doesn't make it right - whatever the country or culture.

                              there is no respect for those concerned. with such a young child involved, and all the myriad of issues around that, and further being traded as a 'commodity' i just find it totally abhorrent, to say nothing of the terror felt by the child.

                              i'm really interested in other cultures and other ways, and i agree it is all too easy to make judgements from outwith a situation, when you perhaps don't have full knowledge or understanding of what's involved or why, but i don't think it's about that in this case.

                              i'm not being disrespectful of the culture in saying that i think that this particular practice is wrong, I have no problem at all, with arranged marriage between consenting adults - but surely that's a different issue entirely. it's about the child. whatever the country, culture, circumstances, a young child being used in that particular way is wrong.

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