Grammar Guru needed to speak to/with...

**Nicos** · 30-10-2009, 02:54 PM

Well...some peeps would argue that I talk at people!!!!

my gut feeling would be you speak with peeps and talk to.....??????

" to whom am I talking?....
with whom am I talking?" ( think the first one sounds correct????)

**HeyWayne** · 30-10-2009, 02:58 PM

I would argue that "speak with" is the more appropriate as the conversation is intended as two-way.

If addressing a group of people without the expectation of some form of response I would suggest that you would then "speak to" that group of people.

That said, I hail from Lutonia and cannot claim to have a classical English upbringing.

**OllieMartin** · 30-10-2009, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by Nicos View Post

Well...some peeps would argue that I talk at people!!!!

my gut feeling would be you speak with peeps and talk to.....??????

" to whom am I talking?....
with whom am I talking?" ( think the first one sounds correct????)

Well this is my problem, because "talk with" and "speak with" both sound fine, but my dad has always championed the arguement that they're both wrong in every instance.
I'd hate to get it wrong in something official, especially if i was trying to win one of my common arguements about grammar! (Yes I do lead an exciting life).

If I get this wrong I'll feel like those people who say "myself" instead of "me" just because it sounds more intelligent. E.g. "When you're done you can pass it to myself"

**HeyWayne** · 30-10-2009, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by OllieMartin View Post

Well this is my problem, because "talk with" and "speak with" both sound fine, but my dad has always championed the arguement that they're both wrong in every instance.
I'd hate to get it wrong in something official, especially if i was trying to win one of my common arguements about grammar! (Yes I do lead an exciting life).

If I get this wrong I'll feel like those people who say "myself" instead of "me" just because it sounds more intelligent. E.g. "When you're done you can pass it to myself"

Clearly your father is more accustomed with "talking to" you rather than "with", but that's just fathers for you.

**Brengirl** · 30-10-2009, 03:11 PM

My instinct is that the term 'speak' is a one way directive. Therefore 'speak' to. Talk seems interactive (unless talking to yourself) therefore 'talk' with.

**OllieMartin** · 30-10-2009, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by HeyWayne View Post

Clearly your father is more accustomed with "talking to" you rather than "with", but that's just fathers for you.

I think what he is getting at is that "speak" and "talk" imply one-way communication as in "to give a speech", if it is two-way then it is a conversation which should use one of the synonyms "converse" or "discuss". But I could be wrong, hence the thread.

**HeyWayne** · 30-10-2009, 03:26 PM

The man has a very good point - like I said, I'm from Luton - not renowned for talking proper like.

**SarzWix** · 30-10-2009, 03:31 PM

As far as I'm concerned, your dad has it right Ollie. You can't 'speak with' or 'talk with' and the problem is to do with the type of verb you're using, they aren't interactive type verbs. It should be discuss, or converse, or argue, or any of the many other verbs which imply collective use. If that makes sense.

I'm just on my way out, or I'd do a bit of research

**OllieMartin** · 30-10-2009, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by SarzWix View Post

As far as I'm concerned, your dad has it right Ollie. You can't 'speak with' or 'talk with' and the problem is to do with the type of verb you're using, they aren't interactive type verbs. It should be discuss, or converse, or argue, or any of the many other verbs which imply collective use. If that makes sense.

I'm just on my way out, or I'd do a bit of research

Well it's reasuring to know he's not the only one who says it's that way around. Otherwise i'd chalk it down to him being the family curmudgeon!
Oddly, I've read the entire internet (I printed it off too!) and there don't seem to be any pages on the subject.

The OED refer only to "speak to" in their definition of "speak", but that doesn't rule out "speak with" and they don't reference either "to" or "with" in the "talk" or "discuss" definitions.

The research continues...

**Jeanied** · 30-10-2009, 03:39 PM

Hi Ollie - I do like a nice bit of forensic grammar work! The phrases that go together like ' a talking to' and 'speaking with' are formulaic phrases which 'go' together - collocations. The link between the verb and the prepositions 'with' or 'to' is quite weak - sometimes referred to as 'delexical'. This means both forms are technically correct and the choice is semantic or even stylistic.

I have the same trouble today with 'bored of' instead of 'bored with'.

Yeah, I know - nobody likes a smart a**e!

**HayleyB** · 30-10-2009, 03:46 PM

Yep I think Sarz is correct, the person (not a collective) speaks to or talks to but interactive (a collective) is to chat or discuss with.... I think...

**Bigmallly** · 30-10-2009, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Jeanied View Post

Hi Ollie - I do like a nice bit of forensic grammar work! The phrases that go together like ' a talking to' and 'speaking with' are formulaic phrases which 'go' together - collocations. The link between the verb and the prepositions 'with' or 'to' is quite weak - sometimes referred to as 'delexical'. This means both forms are technically correct and the choice is semantic or even stylistic.

I have the same trouble today with 'bored of' instead of 'bored with'.

Damn....beaten to it........

**Jeanied** · 30-10-2009, 03:51 PM

* Chuckle* nice one BM!

**zazen999** · 30-10-2009, 03:53 PM

Anyway - nice avatar HW.

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