Grow Your Own Magazine

T.Austin · #36 (**permalink**) 25-06-2008, 07:06 PM

Ha,ha.ha Lol

T.Austin · #37 (**permalink**) 28-06-2008, 11:17 PM

OK.Went to visit my kids today,got out of the car and walked down the road to be confronted by a big black dog growling at me.The owners just kept telling Harry[stoopid name]to get back in without any attempt to retrive him,assuming that I was a DOG LOVER[not]
Why is it that dog owners assume that everyone loves dogs!!!!!?

terrier · #38 (**permalink**) 28-06-2008, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.Austin

OK.Went to visit my kids today,got out of the car and walked down the road to be confronted by a big black dog growling at me.The owners just kept telling Harry[stoopid name]to get back in without any attempt to retrive him,assuming that I was a DOG LOVER[not]
Why is it that dog owners assume that everyone loves dogs!!!!!?

Responsible dog owners DON'T. Unfortunately they get a lot of bad press because of irresponsible dog owners!

jamesp · #39 (**permalink**) 29-06-2008, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.Austin

OK.Went to visit my kids today,got out of the car and walked down the road to be confronted by a big black dog growling at me.The owners just kept telling Harry[stoopid name]to get back in without any attempt to retrive him,assuming that I was a DOG LOVER[not]
Why is it that dog owners assume that everyone loves dogs!!!!!?

Quite correct, its the dog owners fault though, not the dogs fault.

If you come across this situation again do the following, I've never known it fail even when I have been faced with a pack of dogs off the lead.

If it doesn't work it means you have done something wrong:

If the dog seems aggressive it is important that you stand your ground and face the dog, if you walk or run away or turn your back this can be seen as weakness as far as the dog is concerned and you could even become prey, whatever, you have a much higher risk of being attacked or bitten.

You must remain calm and assertive (quietly confident) as if your nervous, angry, tense or frustrated the dog will pick up that you feel that way and all of those states of mind to a dog is a weakness, in the wild the pack leader is always calm assertive and this is the state of mind a dog will respect the most.

If the dog walks past you, you must keep turning and keep facing the dog as going round the back is a typical ambush attack for a dog when hunting prey.

Its important that you hold your ground, if you even step back slightly the dog may see it as weakness.

Its very important that you hold your ground until the dog looks away from you and turns its back and walks off, you can then walk off as you now have won the physiological battle.

If you hold your ground and remain clam assertive and the dog still approaches you, make a short sharp noise when the dog about 6 feet away, like tsssssshhhh, ahaha, do not talk to the dog and say for example good boy, go away etc, as pack leaders in the wild do not negogiate, the dog then will stop and wont approach you if you do it correctly, you are effectively creating a 6 foot invisible boundary around you, with dogs its all about territory and ownership, you are telling the dog this is my space keep out of it.

On rare occasions the dog may enter your space in a non-aggressive mode even though it was aggressive to start with, this may be a time to re-asses the situation, if they enter your space and a short sharp noise wont stop them that is because your timing is wrong or you have done it to many times and the dog can block and ignore it, if the dog enters your space with his head lowered this can mean respect as they do this when approaching a pack leader in the wild or it can mean the start of an attack as they also do this when going for preys legs, if it in attack mode you will notice the hairs on the dog stand up (they do this to make themselves look bigger like a blow fish does), which ever it is make your hand in a cup shape (so your hand becomes a mouth and teeth effectively) and prod with medium force (not to hurt just to get their attention) around the high neck area and the dog should run off, a pack leader in the wild do this with their mouth on other dogs to discipline.

If the dog is completely non aggressive you can still do the above if you dont want the dog to approach you, if you dont mind then just stand your ground, give no eye contact, no touch and no sound, the dog will then sniff you, its important that you dont disturb the dog when it is sniffing you as this is impolite in the dog world, once the dog has sniffed you he will prob just lose interest and walk off.

Another thing you can do is hold an object by your side...ie a box or anything handy, and hold your head high and your chest out and if you have nothing to pick up and hold by your side put your hands on your hips, all of these tips will make you look like a bigger animal to the dog.

If you have an umbrella or a walking stick, wait till the dog is 6 foot away and stamp the ground with the umbrella or walking stick, this is very effective at claiming the space as mentioned earlier, this is what shepherds do with their crook to tell the cattle I own this space go into that space.

Never hit a dog as you are more likely just to intensify his aggression towards you.

If your facing a pack of dogs do the above with the pack leader and the rest will just follow the pack leader as they do in the wild, to identify the pack leader it will nearly always be the dog out in front of the others, it will also have its tail in an upright posture and the other dogs tail will be lower as only the pack leader allowed to have the tail high as that is a sign of dominance.

You may find that one dog will go to the front and one to the back of you, this is typical 'pack attack' modes, you must keep turning to face the dogs and keep claiming your space, as i have mentioned once you have dealt with the pack leader the other dogs will follow.

During all this just ignore the owner, if they say don't worry my dog is friendly just totally ignore that and do the above, most people who get bitten is when they have taken that advice from the owner, the owner has no control of the dog if the owner cannot stop his dog approaching you, ie his or her dog is the pack leader not the owner if they cant stop the dog.

Snadger · #40 (**permalink**) 29-06-2008, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesp

Quite correct, its the dog owners fault though, not the dogs fault.

If you come across this situation again do the following, I've never known it fail even when I have been faced with a pack of dogs off the lead.

If it doesn't work it means you have done something wrong:

If the dog seems aggressive it is important that you stand your ground and face the dog, if you walk or run away or turn your back this can be seen as weakness as far as the dog is concerned and you could even become prey, whatever, you have a much higher risk of being attacked or bitten.

You must remain calm and assertive (quietly confident) as if your nervous, angry, tense or frustrated the dog will pick up that you feel that way and all of those states of mind to a dog is a weakness, in the wild the pack leader is always calm assertive and this is the state of mind a dog will respect the most.

If the dog walks past you, you must keep turning and keep facing the dog as going round the back is a typical ambush attack for a dog when hunting prey.

Its important that you hold your ground, if you even step back slightly the dog may see it as weakness.

Its very important that you hold your ground until the dog looks away from you and turns its back and walks off, you can then walk off as you now have won the physiological battle.

If you hold your ground and remain clam assertive and the dog still approaches you, make a short sharp noise when the dog about 6 feet away, like tsssssshhhh, ahaha, do not talk to the dog and say for example good boy, go away etc, as pack leaders in the wild do not negogiate, the dog then will stop and wont approach you if you do it correctly, you are effectively creating a 6 foot invisible boundary around you, with dogs its all about territory and ownership, you are telling the dog this is my space keep out of it.

On rare occasions the dog may enter your space in a non-aggressive mode even though it was aggressive to start with, this may be a time to re-asses the situation, if they enter your space and a short sharp noise wont stop them that is because your timing is wrong or you have done it to many times and the dog can block and ignore it, if the dog enters your space with his head lowered this can mean respect as they do this when approaching a pack leader in the wild or it can mean the start of an attack as they also do this when going for preys legs, if it in attack mode you will notice the hairs on the dog stand up (they do this to make themselves look bigger like a blow fish does), which ever it is make your hand in a cup shape (so your hand becomes a mouth and teeth effectively) and prod with medium force (not to hurt just to get their attention) around the high neck area and the dog should run off, a pack leader in the wild do this with their mouth on other dogs to discipline.

If the dog is completely non aggressive you can still do the above if you dont want the dog to approach you, if you dont mind then just stand your ground, give no eye contact, no touch and no sound, the dog will then sniff you, its important that you dont disturb the dog when it is sniffing you as this is impolite in the dog world, once the dog has sniffed you he will prob just lose interest and walk off.

Another thing you can do is hold an object by your side...ie a box or anything handy, and hold your head high and your chest out and if you have nothing to pick up and hold by your side put your hands on your hips, all of these tips will make you look like a bigger animal to the dog.

If you have an umbrella or a walking stick, wait till the dog is 6 foot away and stamp the ground with the umbrella or walking stick, this is very effective at claiming the space as mentioned earlier, this is what shepherds do with their crook to tell the cattle I own this space go into that space.

Never hit a dog as you are more likely just to intensify his aggression towards you.

If your facing a pack of dogs do the above with the pack leader and the rest will just follow the pack leader as they do in the wild, to identify the pack leader it will nearly always be the dog out in front of the others, it will also have its tail in an upright posture and the other dogs tail will be lower as only the pack leader allowed to have the tail high as that is a sign of dominance.

You may find that one dog will go to the front and one to the back of you, this is typical 'pack attack' modes, you must keep turning to face the dogs and keep claiming your space, as i have mentioned once you have dealt with the pack leader the other dogs will follow.

During all this just ignore the owner, if they say don't worry my dog is friendly just totally ignore that and do the above, most people who get bitten is when they have taken that advice from the owner, the owner has no control of the dog if the owner cannot stop his dog approaching you, ie his or her dog is the pack leader not the owner if they cant stop the dog.

Or you could just get back in the car!

jamesp · #41 (**permalink**) 29-06-2008, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snadger

Or you could just get back in the car!

That would work, but would mean you have lost the physiological battle with the dog and the next time you come across it you will have the same problem.

Its nearly always a physiological battle with a dog as they don't really want to risk injury and if you win that battle you wont have a problem with that dog again as he will remember your scent.

kirsty b · #42 (**permalink**) 29-06-2008, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.Austin

OK.Went to visit my kids today,got out of the car and walked down the road to be confronted by a big black dog growling at me.The owners just kept telling Harry[stoopid name]to get back in without any attempt to retrive him,assuming that I was a DOG LOVER[not]
Why is it that dog owners assume that everyone loves dogs!!!!!?

I have 2 boxers and even though I KNOW that they are big soppy buggers, I don't take it for granted that everbody will feel the same, I never would. They are big dogs and can move pretty fast and thats pretty intimidating for a child or another dog walker.
When approaching another walker up the field, they get put back on the lead until we are past.
James, I'll be printing your posts out and reading them at home cos brain not functioning too well at this ridiculous hour!!
Snadger, Max the 11 mth old does the tail thing, although not as much now, he much prefers his genitalia

. We thought it was a 'puppy' thing.

squashysu · #43 (**permalink**) 29-06-2008, 11:03 AM

james, are you a dog physcologist????? and if not, why not?? and if you are, wow, i bet you never back down in a fight lol?

jamesp · #44 (**permalink**) 29-06-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirsty b

I have 2 boxers and even though I KNOW that they are big soppy buggers, I don't take it for granted that everbody will feel the same, I never would. They are big dogs and can move pretty fast and thats pretty intimidating for a child or another dog walker.
When approaching another walker up the field, they get put back on the lead until we are past.
James, I'll be printing your posts out and reading them at home cos brain not functioning too well at this ridiculous hour!!
Snadger, Max the 11 mth old does the tail thing, although not as much now, he much prefers his genitalia

. We thought it was a 'puppy' thing.

Hi Kirsty,

No problem, a bit late...lol, just let me know if i can help in anyway.

jamesp · #45 (**permalink**) 29-06-2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squashysu

james, are you a dog physcologist????? and if not, why not?? and if you are, wow, i bet you never back down in a fight lol?

I don't do it for a living its just a passion of mine.

I have been studying animal behaviour for a long time and in particular dogs, wolf dogs and wolves.

I have offered my services free of charge to the local dog rescue centres, but they are not interested unless I have a formal qualification even though that the formal stuff they use on dogs in this country simple does not work on dogs with real behaviour issues, they would rather put a healthy dog down than let me rehabilitate the dog, what they have to lose in this scenario is totally beyond me, but there you go.

In any given situation you have 4 choices, run, flight, ignore or submit, I will choose the one that bests suits the situation.

squashysu · #46 (**permalink**) 29-06-2008, 06:44 PM

james

i think we need you at my sisters friends house, she has a Wierarner (cant spell it) that rules the house and is just awful!!!!!! but the owner is totally at fault and it has even been excluded from puppy classes!!!!!!!!

i feel something will seriously happen with this dog........and it wont be the dogs fault!!!

i am thinking now seriously about getting another GSD, especially since this thread, none of my dogs have ever had a behaviour problem, just me ha ha !!

SS

is i need your help, i will just ask - pushy me eh!!

jamesp · #47 (**permalink**) 29-06-2008, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squashysu

james

i think we need you at my sisters friends house, she has a Wierarner (cant spell it) that rules the house and is just awful!!!!!! but the owner is totally at fault and it has even been excluded from puppy classes!!!!!!!!

i feel something will seriously happen with this dog........and it wont be the dogs fault!!!

i am thinking now seriously about getting another GSD, especially since this thread, none of my dogs have ever had a behaviour problem, just me ha ha !!

SS

is i need your help, i will just ask - pushy me eh!!

I'm quite happy to help in anyway I can, it does rely on the human owner accepting help (this is my toughest task!) and following through with what I instruct them.

The breed of the dog is immaterial as ALL dogs are born non aggressive and will always (unless a medical problem) return to a balanced state of mind as mother nature intended if the human owners will show them strong leadership.

Dogs crave our affection and being a sole mate, but for a dog strong leadership is what they crave the most, this just stops them being an insecure or reluctant pack leader without the skills to do the job (in the wild pack leaders are born not made) and then they can just relax and go to being a follower and a happy dog, it is also bad for a dog's health to be in a stressed state as a reluctant pack leader as it builds toxins up in their bodies the same it does for us ie if we have a stressful job.

Snadger · #48 (**permalink**) 29-06-2008, 07:34 PM

I personally think there are no bad dogs just bad owners!

And as far as doing things by the book...........when did you ever see a dog that could read?

On a lighter tack someone asked for a picky of my dog ............this is Amber now (six months old) and as a tiny puppy. Cripes can't remember her being that cute!

Appologies for photos's btw as I certainly aint no David Bailey!

jamesp · #49 (**permalink**) 29-06-2008, 07:40 PM

The only book as such is the book of mother nature which any dog knows off by heart, its just us humans that have lost sight of mother nature.

One of the biggest problems is that a lot of people humanise a dog, they think it's a human on four legs and treat it as such ie like a child etc, thats normally when all the behaviour problems start.

kirsty b · #50 (**permalink**) 29-06-2008, 07:45 PM

She's a cracker Snadge. Will go on t'other puter later (on himself's laptop at mo) and pop up a pic of Boo and Max. Boo is in my avatar.

Perhaps we should start another Vine dog thread, so all the newer members can show us their hounds.

Cloud · #51 (**permalink**) 29-06-2008, 08:24 PM

OK maybe you are convincing me.Its not the dogs but maybe the owners.

SarzWix · #52 (**permalink**) 29-06-2008, 09:57 PM

Snadger, she is gorgeous

Looks like she's going to be a tall girl - she looks as tall as Pads is already!

squashysu · #53 (**permalink**) 29-06-2008, 10:01 PM

thanks for the pics, she is lovely snadger, oh i so need another dog!!!!

SS

ps. thanks james for the help

terrier · #54 (**permalink**) 29-06-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesp

I have offered my services free of charge to the local dog rescue centres, but they are not interested unless I have a formal qualification even though that the formal stuff they use on dogs in this country simple does not work on dogs with real behaviour issues, they would rather put a healthy dog down than let me rehabilitate the dog, what they have to lose in this scenario is totally beyond me, but there you go.

Maybe you should be turning your attention onto the irresponsible breeders who place these dogs in unsuitable homes with no backup help once they have got their money. Unfortunately there are too many 'healthy', 'problem' dogs in rescue and if they wern't put down they would have to be re homed. Rescues don't have the financial resources to deal with the number of dogs passing through their doors, so they have no option but termination.