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Childhood scrumping apple identification

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  • #1

    Childhood scrumping apple identification

    the last time I got to this apple tree was 24 years ago, planted within an old farm damson orchard, that had long since been abandoned , well it 24 years have taken hold and after getting through about 100ft of bramble reached the old tree, trunk in excellent condition but lichen covered branches looked a bit worse for wear but the tree was carrying a good crop just as I remembered , a good few apples have already started to fall into the nettles that surround the tree,

    the id part ,

    I live in cheshire

    the tree is upright with very slight drooping branches,
    lower branch fruit is just reachable 7-8ft

    no visible graft visible

    apples quite large? see 50p in picture for size,

    apples on the tree are a palish green to cream coloured, some have a faint pink orange blush

    maybe 5-10 % of the apples have fallen from the tree
    the apples on the floor are very pale cream white with a faint pink orange blush

    the flavour is nice almost eating but does have a sharp tang I would say it would be a nice cooker

    soil in the area is clay

    the apple when cut discolours very quick within 2 minutes

    sadly the area close by is being cleared for houses so in time the poor tree maybe gone

    stew
    Attached Files
    Last edited by veggiechicken; 23-09-2016, 05:25 PM. Reason: Title typo
    Tags: None
  • #2
    another picture without flesh discolouring and better view of the top of the apple
    Attached Files

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    • #3
      Don't know what variety of cooker it is, but based on the look of those I grow it isn't Emneth Early, Grenadier, Arthur Turner, Bramley's or Norfolk Beauty. Don't think it's Lane Prince Albert or Lord Derby either.

      Comment

      • #4
        Have a look on these sites you may be able to see one like it,
        Also, some areas have `apple days` ,you can take one along and someone may be able to identify it for you

        Directory of apple varieties starting with A

        Apple Identification Website
        Last edited by starloc; 18-09-2016, 09:06 AM.
        Living off grid and growing my own food in Bulgaria.....

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by boundtothesoil View Post
          Don't know what variety of cooker it is, but based on the look of those I grow it isn't Emneth Early, Grenadier, Arthur Turner, Bramley's or Norfolk Beauty. Don't think it's Lane Prince Albert or Lord Derby either.
          Thank you I have sent pictures to a few apple tree growers they have been very helpful ideas put forward

          Green sleeves
          Lord Derby
          Glass
          Eadys magnum
          Antonovka
          Golden noble

          I had Lord Derby and golden noble on my short list , Lord Derby seems to
          Be most mentioned due to it being a Cheshire bred Apple where I live , but the shape of the Lord Derby Apple pictures don't quite match these

          Comment

          • #6
            Isn't it rather sad the tree so fondly remembered has been neglected and now is going have to succumb to so called 'progress'. It would be nice if it was possible for someone to graft from it and in that way allow it to live on.

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            • #7
              Maybe you can have a look in the National Collection at Brogdale? It must be the time of year for opem days and apple days now.

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              • #8
                I think your tree is one of:

                1. A less common, possibly local variety.
                2. A rootstock which is fruiting.
                3. A tree grown from seed.
                4. A tree whose fruit are not typical due to different soil/climate.

                I think it's most likely to be a less common variety, of which there are thousands around the UK, some of which have yet to be 'rediscovered'.

                Some half-chances to consider:
                Warner's King (possible), Tower of Glamis (unlikely).
                Last edited by FB.; 20-09-2016, 08:54 AM.
                .

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                • #9
                  Very sad indeed I think the housing development near by really prompted me to visit the old tree again, the branches look in quite poor condition I was hoping for some potential grafting material just in case it was something rare apart from my historical attachment to it




                  Originally posted by cheops View Post
                  Isn't it rather sad the tree so fondly remembered has been neglected and now is going have to succumb to so called 'progress'. It would be nice if it was possible for someone to graft from it and in that way allow it to live on.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Thank you FB I was rather hoping with the encroachment of the housing development there might be sutible grafting material but the branches look very poor although it carries lovely apples and the main trunk is perfect condition ,

                    I've only started collecting apples on the last couple of years and have about 30 varieties now so still a novice

                    I was thinking maybe a seedling due to the non-graft trunk ???, if it is a seedling someone really did get lucky it's a beautiful Apple

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                    • #11
                      Forgot to add something very important

                      There is no other apples trees in the surrounding area 1/4 mile to
                      Housing and no wild trees in the vacinity

                      So maybe partial- self fertile ????

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by swaine View Post
                        Forgot to add something very important

                        There is no other apples trees in the surrounding area 1/4 mile to
                        Housing and no wild trees in the vacinity

                        So maybe partial- self fertile ????
                        The more I see of apple trees, the more I suspect that triploids are partially-self-fertile or even parthenocarpic (produce fruit without pollination) in addition to tending to produce large fruit (we like large fruit), being very disease resistant, vigorous, tolerant of neglect and therefore long-lived.
                        .

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by swaine View Post
                          Thank you FB I was rather hoping with the encroachment of the housing development there might be sutible grafting material but the branches look very poor although it carries lovely apples and the main trunk is perfect condition ,

                          I've only started collecting apples on the last couple of years and have about 30 varieties now so still a novice

                          I was thinking maybe a seedling due to the non-graft trunk ???, if it is a seedling someone really did get lucky it's a beautiful Apple
                          It's possible that after many decades the soil level has risen and the graft buried. It's also possible that it was deep-planted. Maybe just not an easy graft to see after all this time.
                          But it could be a seedling. Only the person who grew it will know - or if nobody grew it then it will be a seedling.
                          Could it be a seedling from a discarded apple core? An apple tree in a damson orchard is out of place.
                          Or could the apple tree be the last survivor of an apple orchard that was then converted to damsons but the old apple tree was left where it stood?

                          If you want graftwood - and as long as you won't get into trouble for 'interfering' with the tree - I suggest after all the leaves have fallen you hard-prune a few of its branches, then next spring-summer it should send out some vigorous new shoots which you can use for summer-bud-grafting and, later, winter grafting.
                          .

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                          • #14
                            Swaine, I have the exact same apple tree nearby. Well, it,s not mine but i do have permission to pick a few apples every year. It.s a massive old tree in what was a farmhouse orchard, long since fallen over and regrown from upright branches. The apples fit your description to a t.

                            FB suggested Warner King as a possible and i too considered it before i decided it was Lord Derby, based on nothing more than looking at pictures on internet
                            Bit gutted to see my first apple id is wrong

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                            • #15
                              Rubbish picture by lamplight
                              Attached Files

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