Grow Your Own Magazine

OK, some of you will have seen that I've been offered a lottie. However, it's a bit of a state and needs a lot of work to clear. After quite a bit of dittering I've pretty much convinced myself that I'll be OK when I've got it sorted but I'm quite overwelmed by the amount of work needed to get it into shape.

Obviously I know I need to do it bit by bit but would welcome any advise from you guys on the best way to start. Ideally I'd like to get at least a section of it sorted by the end of autumn so that I can plant up some stuff for over wintering - will make me feel better about progress!

Anway, please let me have the benefits of your experience, even dead simple stuff is welcome as I've not done this before and don't want to fall into the obvious traps.

__________________

Some of us live in the past, always talking about back then. Some of us live in the future, always planning what we are going to do. And, then there are those, who neither look behind or ahead, but just enjoy the moment of right now.

Which one are you and is it how you want to be?

i was given a plot 2 weeks ago - 125sqm - weeds and grass up to 5ft tall
see the two pics attached - the first taken on the day we got the plot, the second about a week later
me and my son started by trampling all the weeds down flat - helps suppress weed growth
then we cleared bindweed off the gooseberry bushes and the plum trees
then we ripped out the long grass and longer weeds by hand - we left the smaller stuff where it was
we also had to clear long grass out of the raspberries which run all long the fence
today we finished ripping out the longer stuff and used weedkiller on the smaller stuff

the weed pile you see in the second pic is about twice that size now - there another one next to it, slightly smaller - we have also filled up 2 large plastic compost bins

the brown patches in the second pic are where we used the hoe - we were going to just hoe everything, but decided better to use weedkiller first

i guess it's taken about 7 or 8 hours work so far - spent more time chatting to other plot holders than we've spent weeding!

next week i'll do more weedkiller if necessary and hopefully get the whole lot sheeted over - i'll remove sheeting to dig over the whole lot bit by bit, and put the sheeting back again

we're hoping to have enough ground prepared for winter caulis, PSB, and onion sets - they will all be started at home and planted out on the allotment later

Attached Thumbnails

   

don't have a lottie but a good sized garden that had nothing but grass and weeds for years according to neighbours. Starte by strimming everything then put black plastic over top section for veg plot. left it a few weeks then move plastic to bit near house. Strimmed the veg bit again then lifted turf going deep to get rid of as many roots as possible. As there is only me to do the work it took several weeks to clear the lot. then made raised beds out of old fence and paths from gravel moved from other part of garden. Double dug all the soil in beds and added chicken manure pellets before planting up.

Personally I would cut down everything on the plot, wait a week or so for new growth to start and us a systemic weedkiller. For it to work properly, it needs light for the plants to photosynthesise, allowing the killer to act on the roots. About 4 weeks.

Cover the whole area in weed control membrane or the like and work one small area at a time.

Get as much root out as you can and plant something up so you can see the results of your efforts. You will get a lot of weeds growing as well, mainly from seeds that had been dormant in the soil, but keep up with the weeding.

Then move onto your next section.

If you get more sections done that you can plant up this year, then just recover it ready for next season but don't cover it immediately, leave it for a day or so to give the birds a chance to eat some of the insects in the soil.

It's hard work but worth it.

Been at mine for two years and gradually beating the weeds.

I personally will never use a weed killer(I don't like to use chemicals)
I would suggest you strim the weeds down to ground level & dig.
This way you can get rid of the roots.
Cooch grass can grow from a small piece of root & some weed killers don't kill off the roots.
Some weed killers can remain active for a long time.
You will need to dig over your new plot anyway
DO NOT rotervate as this only chops the roots & can make matters worse.

__________________
I cook with wine, sometimes I even add it to the food.
W. C. Fields

I got mine in Feb this year, the weeds were 6ft tall.
I cleared & burnt topgrowth.
Started digging out the weeds, immediately planting up with limnanthes as ground cover (which I moved from my old plot). They suppressed further weeds, but you could use cardboard/carpet instead.

As Spring came, the weeds grew faster than I could clear them, so I started using Glyphosate on the nettles, brambles and ivy. It's not been brilliant - the weeds keep coming. But I am winning ... I was self-sufficient in veg by June. (I sowed in the greenhouse, and planted out as soon as I had a space cleared).

If you can do nothing else, at least deadhead any weeds that are about to flower.

Attached Thumbnails

     

__________________
~ What do I think of Western civilisation? I think it would be a very good idea ~ Gandhi

If you are fit and don't like chemicals then dig it.

Otherwise, even if you don't like chemicals, consider using Glyphosphate (e.g. Roundup) just to get you going - have a read about it because it is a very safe chemical (all things are relative of course).

Glyphosphate works best when the weeds are growing. I'm not sure at this time of the year whether I would spray them as they are, or cut them down and respray the re-growth. Its been very wet here, so the second may work well this year.

Glyphosphate takes a couple of weeks before you see much in the way or results. You will probably need to spray again to get anything that you missed, or that didn't kill off well the first time.

If you are able to get a good kill I would then use a self-powered Cultivator - i.e. one that propels itself rather than just driving the tines. For fresh ground the baby machines are not going to "dig in". If you have got a good kill of the pernicious weeds chopping their roots should not generate lots of new plants. It's a big job getting a patch started, and getting the ground "broken" doesn't half help! (I had the local farmer plough mine ...)

(You need to get rid of all the dead top growth before rotavating - otherwise it will just wrap round the tines and you'll spend more time removing it than doing useful work! I strimmed mine and then used a flame-thrower to burn off the stubble)

There are different schools of though about using a weed suppressing membrane, but I think on balance covering the whole thing in membrane and planting through it the first year will help kill off lots of weed seedlings that spring up as soon as the earth is disturbed. Spread compost etc. (and rotavate in if you are organised enough to have the compost on-site when the rotavator is available!) before covering with the membrane.

Membrane will attract more slugs etc., may not be 100% successful in suppressing the weeds, and costs money. But I like the "flying start" that it provides. Again, if you have time for weeding etc. then may not be necessary.

If you have Mares Tail then Glyphosphate is not going to kill it, and rotavating will make the problem worse [by chopping up the roots].

If you have Bindweed, Ground elder, etc. and you are happy using Glyphosphate then I would leave it some time before cultivating the soil and keep up the chemical attack until there are no new growths.

Glyphosphate will kill everything it comes into contact with. Don't use a fine spray that can carry on the wind (more of a fan-jet is better, heavier drops that don't carry very far), and keep the nozzle down to the ground. be careful where you walk too! you shoes will carry the chemical from the plants you are working on.

Glyphosphate is neutralised on contact with the ground, so won;t persist, but be careful not to contaminate waterways / ponds etc. because I believe it does have some toxicity to aquatic life.

Finally consider Raised Beds. I wouldn't grow Veg. any other way now, its like Night and Day to how I used to grow Veg when I was a young lad!

__________________
-------------------------------------------
K's Garden blog last update 3rd August 2008

How about organising a plot clearing bbq invite all your mates, get in the beers and give them all a shovel/spade/fork.

Farmer Gyles has been coming up with a few ideas lately for a grape get together have no idea why

__________________
Hayley B

OH is competing in the Macmillan 4x4 challenge (in aid of Macmillan Nurses) partnering Julia Bradbury (Watchdog presenter) in March 2009 http://www.justgiving.com/mac4x4juliabradbury

Don't rotovate!!!! You'll just chop up all the brambles / bindweed / couch grass and spread it everywhere!!!

Raze the thing down to ground level, cover in heavy duty landscape fabric, then start digging thoroughly from one end, making sure you get all the bits out.

If things start pushing up under the landscape fabric, then "spot weed" them. This is how we got rid of a helluva lot of brambles (15 yrs deserted plot!). For brambles, make sure you get the nodules out!

For bindweed, you can spray with "roundup", or you can dig it out. It's brittle. It's fiddly work - you have to get EVERY bit of it out ... I was down on my hands and knees with a hand fork for an entire day over one section which was completely full of it, but it really paid off - just a couple of small bits came up this year.

One thing we did was to cut some holes in the landscape fabric, dig 1ft holes under and fill with compost / manure, and grow all the squash / courgettes / pumpkins through the fabric to (a) hold it down and (b) give it something useful to do - looked fantastic - wouldn't grow them any other way now - really keeps the weeds down!

Take it easy - don't try and do it all at once!

Good luck!

__________________
---
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

Thanks all for your advice. Have been away this weekend so had plenty of time to think about how I want to approach it all and you lot of helped also. Also, from what you lot are saying, it sounds like my plot isn't nearly as bad as some of the ones that you've had! Anyway, fingers crossed, I'm going to go up there and hack a lot of the tall stuff back next weekend (any ideas what to do with it all?!?) and then see what I've got. There's definitly some bramble and I think a bit of bind weed but I should be able to tell when I can see it better.

By the way, does anybody know anywhere to get hold of any cheap membrane? Can get my hands on some cardboard or similar but probably could do with some membrane also.

Attached Thumbnails

     

__________________

Some of us live in the past, always talking about back then. Some of us live in the future, always planning what we are going to do. And, then there are those, who neither look behind or ahead, but just enjoy the moment of right now.

Which one are you and is it how you want to be?

Do you know anybody who owns a petrol strimmer who may let you borrow it?
B&Q have some for a reasonable price & are well worth the investment
I got one last year(on offer) for £55.

__________________
I cook with wine, sometimes I even add it to the food.
W. C. Fields

Was thinking down the strimmer route - from a quick search on t'internet it seems that you can buy them for not much more than the hire cost so may do a bit of a search. It's' my birthday next week so you if I get any money I may put it to that use! What type have you got?

__________________

Some of us live in the past, always talking about back then. Some of us live in the future, always planning what we are going to do. And, then there are those, who neither look behind or ahead, but just enjoy the moment of right now.

Which one are you and is it how you want to be?

From observation, I'm not sure glycophosphate is a real cure all (or kill all) for an overgrown plot.. my allotment neighbours blasted their whole plot (mostly rough grass, not sure if couch or not and docks) and then had it ploughed... all the did was kill the existing weeds and bring a whole variety of new ones to the surface which the are now battling.. I just cut all mine down to about 6inch high with a brushcutter (easier to lever out the brambles with a bit of stalk and i thought that would be safer for any small animals in the undergrowth) covered what I could with cardboard and carpet (downside of leaving stalks the really brambly bit didn't get covered ) and dug and dug.. It's definatly not weed free but it's no worse than next door and I didn't have to worry about the possible effects of exposing myself or the local wildlife to chemicals.. If you go this route I definatly recommend getting hold of a cheap strimmer or a grass whip so you can buzz over any undug un cultivated bits every so often as seeing them grow faster than your plants is a bit demoralising.. Another cunning trick I've discovered that works well were there are no brambles is to lay a think layer of cardboard down then cover with compost and soil and plant into that.. I used this for my early potatoes and it worked a treat, hardly any weeds and they were easy to dig up too

Can't remember name but it is one made for B&Q (I think) they have 2 sorts 1 with a plastic chord the other has a metal blade(more expensive)

__________________
I cook with wine, sometimes I even add it to the food.
W. C. Fields

I think my battery powered strimmmer was a B&Q job ( bought 2nd hand for a fiver but I don't think it was much new).. It works surprisingly well on soft weeds but struggles with mature nettlesand won't really touch any but the youngest brambles.. It's ideal for my purposes as it's light to use and the battery life is pretty good so I can get round a good chunk of the plot each time I use it

I tried a battery powered strimmer - it didn't touch the stuff and went flat really fast - DON'T get a cheap one!!! If you can afford a petrol one, that would be the way to go - check with your allotment society if anyone has one you can borrow.

With the landscape fabric, you can use cardboard / old carpet / anything porous that doesn't let light through, but to be honest, the actual landscape fabric is the best. I had a 5 rod plot (half plot) and managed to get enough 15ft wide heavy duty landscape fabric to cover it for about £50. Unlike the "cheap" landscape fabric you can get from homebase / wickes etc, this one hasn't biodegraded, and I'm still using bits of it 4 years later - I've cut it up to grow courgettes and broccoli through to keep the weeds down.

__________________
---
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

Another problem with battery strimmers is the time they work before recharging(20 mins or so)
also as mentioned above they are not powerful enough to deal with larger weeds, mine deals with all but the thickest brambles.

__________________
I cook with wine, sometimes I even add it to the food.
W. C. Fields

Last year I used a petrol strimmer (like this:Gardening Tools Direct: Kawasaki KBL23-A Brush Cutter for UK delivery)

It did the business on tough brambles, nettles, everything ... but was very heavy & hard for a short-@rse to use ... it's a constant back-and-forth or up-and-down movement, very hard on the shoulders and arm muscles.
You also MUST use goggles & gauntlets, because bits of sharp stem fly around everywhere

__________________
~ What do I think of Western civilisation? I think it would be a very good idea ~ Gandhi

Looks a bit of a beast and it's sadly too expensive for me to buy. Am considering hiring a heavy duty one for a weekend to clear the worst of it and then possibly buying something cheaper to keep on top of things - am just glad that the plot hire is cheap as this could begin to scale out of control if I'm not careful! Have asked around and nobody I know seems to have anything more meaty that a lawn mower so sadly that's no use.

__________________

Some of us live in the past, always talking about back then. Some of us live in the future, always planning what we are going to do. And, then there are those, who neither look behind or ahead, but just enjoy the moment of right now.

Which one are you and is it how you want to be?

our allotment society has a petrol strimmer / mower / shredder etc for hire, only about £5 per hour i think - but was wet when i was up there ripping the weeds out so didn't bother - bit of hard graft did me some good

glycowotsit weedkiller won't kill off everything, esp mares tail (which we've got) and bindweed, but it will severely suppress it - repeated use will help big time - eventually it should all get dug out

my mate is an upholsterer - the weed control fabric you get in garden centres etc is exactly the same material as used by upholsterers on the underside of some furniture so he's ordering me a 100m roll costing about £30 .....